The divorce thing's fair enough, but how come we seem to have ended up with all the children?
Off Topic BREXIT
- Thread starter Chazz Rheinhold
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The divorce thing's fair enough, but how come we seem to have ended up with all the children?
That any negotiated constrictions, on any trade deal negotiated with what will remain of the European Union, will make leaving their ranks a pointless exercise. Can you give us more detail so we can understand that better? You do have the detail, don't you?
You're completely missing the point.
I'll try and give you a simple single example of why what you're suggesting can't happen.
We currently have free movement of goods, services and people between all EU member states (along with partner states like Norway and Switzerland, who we now plan to join).
To join this club, you have to agree to a whole set of rules, these include abiding by duty rates that have to be paid on goods from non-EU states. It's this that prevents EU member states and the partner states, from doing their own trade deals.
Let's pretend, for the purpose of this exercise, that every EU member state goes completely mental and allows us to continue our free trade agreement within the EU, but also sign free trade deals outside the EU.
What happens?
Day one, we sign a free trade agreement with China.
We can now buy Chinese goods and sell them anywhere in Europe for 15% less than any other member state.
Overnight, all European imports from China will go to the UK and be distributed from there as it's 15% cheaper.
Surely you can see why they couldn't possibly agree to this?
(selective cut and paste, obviously not my work)
The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them. In 2014 there was a trade deficit of over £50bn, with a current account deficit of nearly £100 billion. It seems unlikely that the EU would seek to disrupt a trade which is so beneficial to itself.
– Moreover, the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the EU must make a trade agreement with a country which leaves the EU.
– World Trade Organization (WTO) rules lay down basic rules for international trade by which both the EU and UK are obliged to abide.
-The EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries to overcome such tariffs, and is currently negotiating a number of other agreements.
-EU now exempts services and many goods from duties anyway. In 2009 UK charged customs duty of just 1.76% on non-EU imports. This is so low that the EU Common Market is basically redundant as a customs union with tariff walls.
-The EU is not the place where most economic growth is occurring. The EU’s share of world GDP is forecast to decline to 22% in 2025, down from 37% in 1973.
-Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship.
-Furthermore, Britain’s best trading relationships are generally not within the EU, but outside, i.e. with countries such as the USA and Switzerland.
-The largest investor in the UK is not even an EU country, but the US.
Official Swiss government figures conclude that through their trade agreements with the EU, the Swiss pay the EU under 600 million Swiss Francs a year, but enjoy virtually free access to the EU market. The Swiss have estimated that full EU membership would cost Switzerland net payments of 3.4 billion Swiss francs a year.
Norway only had to make relatively few changes to its laws to make its products eligible for the EU marketplace. In 2009, the Norwegian Mission to the EU estimated that Norway’s total financial contribution linked to their EEA (European Economic Area) agreement is some 340 mn Euros a years, of which some 110mn Euros are contributions related to the participation in various EU programmes. However, this is a fraction of the gross annual cost that Britain must pay for EU membership which is now £18.4bn, or £51mn a day.
The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them. In 2014 there was a trade deficit of over £50bn, with a current account deficit of nearly £100 billion. It seems unlikely that the EU would seek to disrupt a trade which is so beneficial to itself.
– Moreover, the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the EU must make a trade agreement with a country which leaves the EU.
– World Trade Organization (WTO) rules lay down basic rules for international trade by which both the EU and UK are obliged to abide.
-The EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries to overcome such tariffs, and is currently negotiating a number of other agreements.
-EU now exempts services and many goods from duties anyway. In 2009 UK charged customs duty of just 1.76% on non-EU imports. This is so low that the EU Common Market is basically redundant as a customs union with tariff walls.
-The EU is not the place where most economic growth is occurring. The EU’s share of world GDP is forecast to decline to 22% in 2025, down from 37% in 1973.
-Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship.
-Furthermore, Britain’s best trading relationships are generally not within the EU, but outside, i.e. with countries such as the USA and Switzerland.
-The largest investor in the UK is not even an EU country, but the US.
Official Swiss government figures conclude that through their trade agreements with the EU, the Swiss pay the EU under 600 million Swiss Francs a year, but enjoy virtually free access to the EU market. The Swiss have estimated that full EU membership would cost Switzerland net payments of 3.4 billion Swiss francs a year.
Norway only had to make relatively few changes to its laws to make its products eligible for the EU marketplace. In 2009, the Norwegian Mission to the EU estimated that Norway’s total financial contribution linked to their EEA (European Economic Area) agreement is some 340 mn Euros a years, of which some 110mn Euros are contributions related to the participation in various EU programmes. However, this is a fraction of the gross annual cost that Britain must pay for EU membership which is now £18.4bn, or £51mn a day.
That's not how it reads.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Sounds like a load of whiny turds who are petulantly stamping their feet, spitting out their dummies, declaring their superior knowledge, unnecessarily creating myths & suggesting all people who voted "Leave" are thick, uneducated, racist, stupid, ignorant, off council estates & many other things rather than accepting the result of a democratic vote, rolling up their sleeves & getting on with making the future a better one for themselves & others.
At least the fallen leader of the "Remain" campaign accepted that there should be only one referendum.
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David CameronVerified account@David_CameronThe Leave campaign is wrong to say there'll be a 2nd referendum if we vote to remain in the EU. This is a referendum and not a neverendum.
2:24 PM - 17 May 2016
Cameron wanted to remain in the EU, he quite rightly believes that his position is untenable and that someone else (preferably someone for the stomach to negotiate our future outside of the EU) should lead his party and our country. It is adequate for me that he leaves because he has failed to deliver what many who voted either way had a reasonable right to expect. I don't know why you, and others, seem intent to tell us all what our expectations and reasoning has been. In an earlier post you complained about no plan, no alternative trade deal, either EU or not, but you seem to ignore that the Prime Minister has resigned and our first priority is to follow our own domestic procedures and restore political order; that new political order will be the one that will have the full mandate to charter the new course of trade and international relations. Or do you think Cameron should tinker whilst on notice to leave?
No, I think there's nobody with any plan at all as everyone thought Remain would win and now we'll get Boris taking over and he was just having a laugh, he didn't actually want to win the ****ing thing.
I'm not sure where you've copied and pasted that from, but it's exceptionally misleading.
So much of what's posted all round is misleading, or opinion dressed as fact.
I've seen a few discussions on it in various places where that claim was made, but others contested it.
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