They didn't need to be negative. What they could've done (which is GCSE level politics ffs) is actually scrutinise what Brexit campaigners plans were after the referendum. We can see THAT is what people are talking about now. They couldd've led a positive campaign of their own and at the same time looked at Brexit's vision and dismantled that one by one.
Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...
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They didn't need to be negative. What they could've done (which is GCSE level politics ffs) is actually scrutinise what Brexit campaigners plans were after the referendum. We can see THAT is what people are talking about now. They couldd've led a positive campaign of their own and at the same time looked at Brexit's vision and dismantled that one by one.
The lack of a positive campaign by Cameron and Corbyn was frankly shocking.
They both gave the impression that being in the EU was a necessary evil (loss if we left, higher taxation and tariffs etc if we left). They campaigned as diehard eurosceptics. Where were the positives: the working together, free movement without visas, no tariffs, the feeling of belonging and being part of a big family, the common goal on climate change and many others?
Now many people say that they feel that they have been kicked out of a family they've belonged to since they were born and they've not asked for that.
I do wish people would stop making this distinction. I'm not young and I've been as vocal a supporter of Remain as anyone on here. A clear majority of my friends of similar age are also in favour of the EU, and roughly a third of the Leavers I know are under 30.
I know the media are stating this as a given truth, but lumping a significant proportion of the electorate together in this way to put the blame on them is simplistic and unfair. It's more complex than that.
I know it's not just you, btw - yours is just the latest post I saw to quote.
I know what you mean. Of course there are leavers amongst the young as there are remainers amongst the old (like you and me
)It is just that according to the surveys 75%-80% of the <25 years were remainers whereas about 70% of the over 65yrs were leavers. My children are livid that many of the voters voted for such a massive life changing decision without realising the full implications of what they were doing.
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"A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom."
Saw a complete white wash on bbc today.
Everybody voted leave for right reason.
The sun still rose...
Nothing happened
Europe just worried about itself.
We'll be better off
Everyone was celebrating like a world Cup
Boris told us the plan. A brave new dawn or something.
Need to respect the few worriers who voted remain but we will say told you so.
Some clown in hull who owns a software company says he voted remain but it doesn't matter he only went into business to make jobs not money so everything is about protecting jobs
.....
Meantime across the channel there's a big game in euros and that proves nothings changed.
.....
Wales rep says the Welsh need a strong voice at the table and every penny they had from Europe has to stay.
NI still not awake, too busy getting ready for July 12th to worry about it
Scotland are just being silly etc etc.
......
Deffo see a stiff upper lip policy here... how British.
Everybody voted leave for right reason.
The sun still rose...
Nothing happened
Europe just worried about itself.
We'll be better off
Everyone was celebrating like a world Cup
Boris told us the plan. A brave new dawn or something.
Need to respect the few worriers who voted remain but we will say told you so.
Some clown in hull who owns a software company says he voted remain but it doesn't matter he only went into business to make jobs not money so everything is about protecting jobs
.....
Meantime across the channel there's a big game in euros and that proves nothings changed.
.....
Wales rep says the Welsh need a strong voice at the table and every penny they had from Europe has to stay.
NI still not awake, too busy getting ready for July 12th to worry about it
Scotland are just being silly etc etc.
......
Deffo see a stiff upper lip policy here... how British.
I know what you mean. Of course there are leavers amongst the young as there are remainers amongst the old (like you and me
It is just that according to the surveys 75%-80% of the <25 years were remainers whereas about 70% of the over 65yrs were leavers. My children are livid that many of the voters voted for such a massive life changing decision without realising the full implications of what they were doing.
I'm not that old yet.
I think that the split is probably fairly accurate in principle, but I wouldn't trust the figures. I'm assuming they were drawn up by exit poll companies and we've seen how useless they are several times now.
However, even if it were true that 70% of us voted one way, that still leaves 30% that didn't, and I resent being lumped in with a faction that I vehemently disagree with, and being blamed for something I actually opposed.
I'm not that old yet.
I think that the split is probably fairly accurate in principle, but I wouldn't trust the figures. I'm assuming they were drawn up by exit poll companies and we've seen how useless they are several times now.
However, even if it were true that 70% of us voted one way, that still leaves 30% that didn't, and I resent being lumped in with a faction that I vehemently disagree with, and being blamed for something I actually opposed.
I know load's of people that give bullshit answers for exit polls. I wouldn't trust them with Ziggy's pole!
Lol..My Mum agrees Saint..she voted Remain and when she started hearing this she got a bit angry...said..hold on I don't remember seeing young ones down at the polling station...just older folk like me...
She then went on a rant (I agree with it ) saying even if she had voted Brexit who are 18 year olds to tell her her vote is worth less after 40 years of paying taxes and contributing to society (she's a just above minimum wage shop worker).
It's a valid point...yes it's the young generations future but why should their vote be any more important than the people who have paid everything in their lives (including for those 18 year olds) up to this point.
One person , one vote.
Talking of I see there's a HM petition going to insist on a new referendum because the majority win wasn't big enough lol...never heard this being spouted in the two weeks before when everyone was saying either way it was a close vote..
I love Democrats that dismiss all votes that aren't the same as their own lol.
Is this by that independent "Vote Leave" organisation?
Day One and the sky hasn't caved in so there's proof we were right?
Bit early for crowing on their part.
£350m was a total lie in the first place. We got £200m back before even sending it, and then billions more back for research grants. We were the biggest winner of research money from the EU in all of Europe with twice that of Germany (the second biggest receiver).
Once you factor in the costs associated with leaving there will probably have to be NHS cuts, and if not cuts to money then cuts to services and medicines due to our weakened currency's buying power.
I thought someone said that during the lead up, when he thought he might lose, Farage said he would press for a second vote if the first was marginal? I don't know if this is true, but if it is, I wonder what his opinion is now?
First day of freedom = we have to follow all the same rules as yesterday but now have less money and no vote.
People bandying those figures about, and those taking notice of them, are being stupid anyway. You can't distil a complex economic interaction down to a few bald statistics. As you say, all the hidden costs and benefits need to be taken into account and even so-called economic experts have only a vague idea of the true impact of these things. We've just had figures plucked out of the air to win votes.
I wouldn't have thought it possible, but politicians have sunk to a new nadir in my opinion - gambling with all our futures to play personal career games.
Sick of the lot of them.
you absolutely sure about that i thought the detailing of the £350 stated only the handbag rebate approx £90 wasn't sent then received another £150 approx back from
A)CAP
B) EU "Social Fund" Payments
leaving net contribution af approx £110
Saint you are old for this board but in this discussion when the media refer to old in this context they mean pensioners
and you can't be a pensioner cos it's almost impossible to become one now as some bastard keeps moving the finishing line
Yes total up front contribution of something just over £100m. The rebate money never bothered getting sent. Whether they bothered to transfer the other money back and forth I don't know and it doesn't matter.
Then we have I think £10m a week net win of EU research funding, pushing our overall contibution down to about £100m a week, or about the same amount of tax Starbucks, Amazon, and Google avoid paying.
Twat.
Saint you are old for this board but in this discussion when the media refer to old in this context they mean pensioners
and you can't be a pensioner cos it's almost impossible to become one now as some bastard keeps moving the finishing line
I'm not that old yet.
I think that the split is probably fairly accurate in principle, but I wouldn't trust the figures. I'm assuming they were drawn up by exit poll companies and we've seen how useless they are several times now.
However, even if it were true that 70% of us voted one way, that still leaves 30% that didn't, and I resent being lumped in with a faction that I vehemently disagree with, and being blamed for something I actually opposed.
Me too. Still bitter about the result
Generalisations can really be unfair but just like the ultimate decision taken on Thursday was based on the whole electorate rather than individuals, observations can only be made according to groups. Of course there will always be individual exceptions. And I am not blaming you at all. But there is no doubt that the young as a group have been more remainers than the over 65s again as a group.
another observation (often repeated in the last couple of days) is that graduates are more likely (again as a group) to be remainers. Some have said that the higher rates of leavers among the >65yrs may be less due to age itself but more to the lower % proportion of graduates in this group. The <25 years have high rates of 45-50% of graduates whereas it is <7% in the >65years. Again just observations and associations but definitely no proof of causation !
Well if they mean pensioners then that makes no sense. They only comprise a fairly small minority of the electorate and are heavily outnumbered by the younger voters.
Saint you are old for this board but in this discussion when the media refer to old in this context they mean pensioners
and you can't be a pensioner cos it's almost impossible to become one now as some bastard keeps moving the finishing line
As Frank has said many times, the young should have got off their arses and voted rather than complain yet again that the old haven't done their work for them.