Well, I've said at least 3 or 4 times that it has been Boris' way of getting his wing of the Tory Party in power, and himself into office, so that comes as no surprise. Apparently, according to the Govt expert, it will take upto 10 years to fully extricate England & Wales from the EU, so there's many a slip. We just shouldn't be doing all this in the first place. One thought that struck me today, not for the first time in the last few weeks. ISIS must be wasting ammo like crazy with their celebrations. I'm sure they'll be taking credit for their part in breaking up the enemy's union. What a recruitment incentive this will be for them.
Wouldn't shock me. Works even if not a plot with defined goal of toppling Cameron...it was definitely all about personal ambitions. And I'm still very, very dubious the UK leaves.
If they don't figure things out quickly, it may not be up to them. If Scotland wants independence bad enough that they will give up their anti-nuke stance and allow us/EU access to their bases just like we do now while they are part of the UK, then England is in trouble. Scotland has the nukes and oil, and those are the two most valuable assets a country can have. That's a horribly cynical way of looking at things, and if you want to call the US the world's biggest militaristic, environment-destroying assholes I guess that's fair. But it is what it is.
Here's a decent reason for not immediately triggering Article 50. Once you formally trigger it the 2 years the UK has to sort out an exit start ticking away and we won't know who will be in charge of the country for 3 or 4 months so you're potentially wasting between an eighth and a sixth of your negotiation time. You might even have a situation where the fixed term parliaments act gets repealed and we have another election by the end of the year. In which case a quarter of our negotiation time is potentially wasted.
Im going to just pick up on something here because it is important for me. There has been generalisation but I haven't read anything personal from anyone. Archers got a bit out of hand early on with his generalisations but not aimed at an individual. I like your posts RJ and respect your opinions and views. Apart from one or two people throwing the global racist remarks, there's been nothing wrong. Some people have got hung about comments on intellect, but mine have not be aimed at one side, they've been aimed at both and included me in that. No-one wanted to hear that bit though, they just picked up on the word intellect and chose to be offended. It is not offensive to say that in a population, there will be difffering intelligence in the people on both sides. I feel that as a Remainer, the leavers have quickly interpreted my posts as rude and attacking individuals. I have carefully made sure I have not done that. I also feel that the leavers are equally as bad as the remainders at making sweeping comments towards those who voted on the other side and I am continually seeing posts that follow mine with a sweeping statement. Once you make a comment you are pigeon-holed and the debate stops and the arguing begins with passion. Just as an example (sorry ImpSaint) - I accused myself of being selfish and then had a number of paragraphs posted against me as to why I shouldn't call him selfish. I hadn't, I had called myself it, but the blinkers were on. I didn't want this thread in the beginning and I made that point at the time. I didn't want this vote and I stand by my reasons for it (which include me not knowing enough). I said people change when it comes to politics. That's happened. I'm pretty sure that there will be some division on the forum, with people not wanting to post. The bottom line for me is this. Almost half the people wanted in and just over half wanted out. That's a dangerously close position. I don't know what else could be done once they'd decided to go to the electorate, but it is what it is. I really hope that the forum owners revert back to a politics ban.
I'll say it Grimlock as nobody else seems to have....( which I find a little odd in our close knit community) I'm very sorry to hear that. It's terrible news for you. I really hope that you are able to find something else, or that you are in a position to be able to cope financially without. I don't know your circumstances, but if you have a family, I hope that there is no lasting affect on them and you quickly get an even keel. Good luck. Stay positive.
I have to agree that every time I see and hear her, Sturgeon is the most credible of individuals out there. I don't agree with a lot of her views, but she appears to have a message, deliver it and not just be fighting and bullshitting.
That's terrible, KG. I feel for you, as I feel for anyone thrown into this position. I truly hope you manage to find another position quickly. I guess there's no chance of you moving with the job? Having worked across Europe and the globe, I find it quite amazing that the concerns voiced by the CBI and financial industries before the vote were ignored and rejected by our "future leaders" as lies and PR for Remain. I had quite a heated debate with a friend who is in the financial industry a few weeks ago after he said it was all "nonsense" and "couldn't happen". I asked him why he was so adamant to leave and he said it was all about Turkey getting in, being overrun by immigrants and getting "control" back in "our" hands. As someone on here said, allowing the same people who voted "Boaty McBoatface" to make such a key decision was the real tragedy. And now people like KG will suffer - I truly despair
I have to disagree with you I'm afraid. I believe she has an anti English agenda more than anything else. Why on earth would she be against rule from Westminster, with all the concessions they receive, but be happy to be ruled by Brussels which will end up being even more intrusive? It's a sad, historical argument.
Hey Lff, I clearly said I didn't agree with her views. I said she seems not to bullshit. Edit: I know what I've done! I've broken a rule. I've said I like someone who doesn't share my views... Aggghhhh!
I`ve never heard any anti-English sentiment from her - give us an example. She is pro-Scottish, not anti-English. She made that quite clear in her speech yesterday.
Rhetoric. As I said she's happy to be ruled by Brussels but not Westminster. It's just illogical unless she has a hidden agenda
But we are not ruled by Brussels - that is the point. You can read nonsense about 80% of our laws are made in the EU, and they have control of everything. Rubbish - 13% of law is made there. Whereas the Scots are ultimately still ruled by Westminister. Good luck to them - I would vote for independence.
It wasn't the fact of you liking her that I was querying, actually I wasn't querying as such. It was her "credibility". And the fact that all I hear is "bulls**t" whenever she opens her mouth. You are of course free to like who you wish to like! I think I'm developing a pathological hatred of all politicians.
I have to say I have been somewhat surprised by the remarks presented from both sides of the camp. None of us know for sure what is going to happen in the future. That goes for both sides and it is no good arguing any different. A majority is a majority no matter how you want to look at it. It was always going to be a narrow victory in either direction and no doubt if the vote had gone the other way we would still be having this kind of conversation. The country has made its decision, it's made its bed, so now we have to lie on it. Being bitter about its decision and being totally negative will get this country nowhere. We more than survived well enough outside of the EU before joining. We will do again if we all pull together. It will be sad to see Scotland leave us but if that is what she wants then so be it. If she would prefer to be ruled by non elected people that is their choice. Personally I am not so sure they will not be just as split as we are when it comes to their "in out" referendum. However that is what democracy is all about. At least we have the freedom to make those choices other people do not have such luxuries........
Well, good luck then because I sincerely believe that if the stated goal of a federal Europe is to succeed, that 13% will soon grow.
Err please explain why they should make any laws that other country's have to abide by and made by non elected people? Also why should their courts have the right to overrule a country's own home made laws? If that is not ruling over people then I really do not know what is.
Unfortunately for all leave supporters we will have to sign up to agree to certain laws etc as part of any trade agreement. It is similar to the way we refuse to trade (officially) with certain countries until they 'reform'. The only positive I can see coming from this is the fact politicians will not be able to blame the EU for their mistakes etc in the future. Every time someone criticises a Government decision it is either the EU's fault or the previous regime's fault. No, if you make false promises which you fail to deliver it is your own fault - take responsibility.
Ok what laws have they overruled then? Please give me an example of a LAW that they have overruled. And, they are elected - another ludicrous myth. Just because less people turn up to vote for an MEP, they are still elected. The Commission acts as the civil service, but are appointed by the Parliament, that we elect.
