LEAVE OR REMAIN

Credit to John Curtice though - heard him on Newsnight at the beginning of the week amidst the Remain side surging in the 'polls'. He said the markets were underestimating the risk of a Leave vote.

 

Most people have not voted to leave the EU. They have voted to stop freedom of movement because they felt it was their only choice.

 

Au contraire, it will be Adieu this time.

 

No, they've voted to leave. The question was whether we were voting to leave, the answer we have given is that we want to.

Those are the cold, hard facts. Regardless of 'motives'.

 

Exactly - but Europe is so much more than that, and leaving the EU won't stop immigration.

1. I know you're not anti-immigration
2. A lot of people voting for Brexit are literally expecting the UK to lift up the drawbridge and stop all people entering.

It ein't happening.

 

Not democracy so much as Government by plebiscite. Given that the plebs read The Sun and The Daily Mail, I suppose it was inevitable this would go badly. And it really has gone bad. I despair for my country. And for the rest of Europe really. What a ****ing mess Cameron has made.

 

What I'd be scared about: the far right is probably going to do pretty well in this upcoming election, and is then going to feel emboldened to demand some incredibly harsh immigration policies.

 

He has made a decision that will ruin his reputation as Prime Minister. He didn't think ahead.

 

Exactly - only going to get worse. But leaving the EU will do **** all to remedy that 'problem'.

 

Hoisted by his own ******

 

And that's the thing. The immigration 'problem' will feel much worse if unemployment rises a couple more points, even if no more immigrants enter. At that point, some of the policies to 'take the country back' will get quite scary.

 

Chukka has just talked a lot of sense but he should have been talking this way a long time ago. You can't suddenly change your tune like that.

 

Oh he did, but not very well.

He was convinced of two things. 1) Promising a referendum was the only way to stop another coalition goverment 2) The result would be Remain.

Doh.

 

A sad sad day for the uk.

 

No one wants to stop immigration it isn't about numbers per se. If we need 500,000 nurses no problem. We do not need 100,000 fruit pickers or egg packers.

500,000 skills to fill shortages is not a problem.

DTLW yes I know we have voted to leave the EU but you can see where the leave votes were. They were all in areas with a lot of low paid work and people have voted purely because they felt they had no choice. They felt they were cornered. A frightened animal does not want to bite you but if you corner it then it will fell it has to bite you to escape.

 

Maybe. The low oil price and the likelihood Scotland would have to re-apply for EU membership (which would mean agreeing to join the Euro) may convince some to stay in the UK.

 

I've never felt more ashamed to be a British person. What an awful and prejudice-charged decision this is.

 

Well I voted leave, and, as I said at the time, I'm not feeling any joy. I would have felt the same voting remain. Trying to decide what was the right way to vote amongst all the lies spouted from both sides made it difficult for me and others from both sides I am sure. Despise Farage.

Hopefully it will all work out OK. Let's just try and respect each others views eh?

Have to say this board, as usual, has not descended into the name calling of some other ones

 

The far right is virtually non existent. It has piggy backed this "genuine" avenue and it will now have nothing to piggy back on. They will be back to showing what they are and we will see them again for what they are.

 

Tbh I feel bad for those who voted for leave based on immigration fears as we may well end up doing a deal on freedom of movement/labour in return for access to the common market even outside of the EU. The deal we are going to do isn't straightforward and I think it's a shame that both sides mislead the public and exaggerated the effects of leaving and staying so much as it could well be a very different picture. And for the record I voted leave.