Off Topic Bill Nicholson Arms

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It is a strange decision as there is no way they can realistically play him before the trial. So why not announce the decision after the trial if he's acquitted?

It seems Chesterfield will have a lot of unwelcome attention and distractions to deal with between now and the trial. For a team which just avoided relegation last season after their form dipped, it can't be the best way to prepare for the new season.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
It is a strange decision as there is no way they can realistically play him before the trial. So why not announce the decision after the trial if he's acquitted?

It seems Chesterfield will have a lot of unwelcome attention and distractions to deal with between now and the trial. For a team which just avoided relegation last season after their form dipped, it can't be the best way to prepare for the new season.
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I'm hoping that people will now leave the poor ****er alone!

He's had his conviction quashed and is currently an innocent man. It will be interesting to see what 'evidence' the prosecution can produce now that their original case has been discredited.
 
It's a very persuasive argument to vote remain considering who is backing the leave campaign. However I will be voting leave because of the bigger picture which I'm not sure I have time now to elucidate. It goes on three related threads.

One is being generally in favour of European countries getting together and having some kind of mutual co-operation agreement, but feeling that such an arrangement as proven by years of painful evidence can never work, and as time goes on and more countries join, is even less likely to work. This gives the bureaucrats more power not less and more power to vested (big business) interests and certain countries who appear to wield more power than others. In other words, Europe good, this version of Europe not good. To say we can change it from the inside is ridiculous, it has been proven not to be possible. And I don't feel represented in Brussels by an MEP who may represent a constituency with more people in it than Iceland has population.

Two is immigration. Apparently I'm hypocritical because my grandparents were immigrants. I'm not against immigration but not uncontrolled and in the EU there can never be control and if there's any hypocrisy here it's Cameron saying he can get net figures down to under 100,000 when it simply isn't possible. Match immigration to the ability of the infrastructure to cope, and import the people you need. If we need nurses and health care workers then by all means lets have them. I feel really bad about that, and I certainly think we should be building more houses, but we've got to be realistic about what we have. I also think immigration may be some policy of government and big business to keep wages low and the "workers keen". Isn't it strange that having been told for years that the country is pulling away from recession and the economy is growing by n percent a year, wages haven't taken off with this alleged growth? (And of course there are still huge numbers unemployed.) But its simple supply and demand isn't it - if more people come in to fill the lowest paid jobs then there is no pressure on wages to rise. However if there are less people around to do the jobs then employers have to offer better wages.

Three is the rise of big business and neocon economics. This is difficult to quantify but my feelings go like this. These considerations seem to override considerations of democracy because regardless of which government is in power, the same economic thinking is always in power. I'm not anti-capitalist by any means, I work in a small business. But the world seems to be skewed toward the interest of big multinational organisations, who sometimes don't even pay much tax in the areas in which they operate. These are the groups that seem very keen for us to remain in the EU, so it follows that we should be very skeptical about their advice. These are the organisations that think that increasing profit is done by laying off workers and putting up prices, rather than the way we in our company have to work which is to innovate and improve the way we work. And we pay our business taxes of course! Agreed it isn't directly about the EU, but I do see a relationship between multinational businesses and an organisation like the EU. True neocon economics also dominate this countries government whether we are in the EU or not, but at least out of the EU we have a chance to go our own way. It is something I think we will never do if we remain.

Just get out and vote, which ever way you choose, it's our birthright.
 
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I have a deep distrust of Big Government and the scope for multi-national corporations to exploit the geographic, economic and bureaucratic gap that Big govt creates between the electorate and their elected representatives (or, as in this case: unelected). This exploitation has long taken root in South Europe and when you look at the economic credentials of the 5 EU shortlisted candidates it beggars belief that the citizens of those countries don't contemplate the possibility of another global depression as a nightmare incarnate should they join the single currency. I also think that the next global downturn will result in enormous pressure form Brussels for the UK to join the single currency as I can't see the continent coping without another financial pillar propping it up.
 
I've been through all this on the Prem board. However, to summarize, as I say I have voted to remain.

For me, it's always the economy. All else stems from the economy and I have no doubt that a vote to leave at this juncture will do severe damage to that economy.

I would never support a federal Europe and would vote leave if that were proposed to us. However, in my judgment, our best interests at this stage are served by remaining.
 
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Was going to post this on the Politics thread, but it seems most comments on the Vote are appearing here.

I come from the school that doesn't believe a politician if his/her mouth is open and certainly have no trust in 'big business' to do what's best for the populous (although that is sometimes an unexpected coincidence). However, I am unconvinced by either sides arguments / exaggerations / lies (delete as appropriate) and so wedged on the fence that I will have to ask my dentist to remove the splinters!!!

Just a question that I haven't seen asked or answered....
There's much talk and it seems pretty much accepted that if we LEAVE then there's no (likely) way back in, but what about the reverse? I am not advocating annual Referenda - heaven forbid <yikes> - but if we REMAIN now, things don't improve and for example the proposed minor reforms on EU immigration get vetoed, then couldn't that be used as a prompt to reassess?

Having emerged intact from the years of financial turmoil between 07-12, as a result I will likely by default rather than conviction, stick with the status quo and vote accordingly. Not ideal...... But I am likely not alone in that thinking.
 
Spur of the Moment said:
Was going to post this on the Politics thread, but it seems most comments on the Vote are appearing here.

I come from the school that doesn't believe a politician if his/her mouth is open and certainly have no trust in 'big business' to do what's best for the populous (although that is sometimes an unexpected coincidence). However, I am unconvinced by either sides arguments / exaggerations / lies (delete as appropriate) and so wedged on the fence that I will have to ask my dentist to remove the splinters!!!

Just a question that I haven't seen asked or answered....
There's much talk and it seems pretty much accepted that if we LEAVE then there's no (likely) way back in, but what about the reverse? I am not advocating annual Referenda - heaven forbid <yikes> - but if we REMAIN now, things don't improve and for example the proposed minor reforms on EU immigration get vetoed, then couldn't that be used as a prompt to reassess?

Having emerged intact from the years of financial turmoil between 07-12, as a result I will likely by default rather than conviction, stick with the status quo and vote accordingly. Not ideal...... But I am likely not alone in that thinking.
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Yes, some of my thoughts too.

It would be a prolonged and messy 'divorce' also. At least 2yrs and maybe longer. Investment in the UK would shrink significantly owing to the uncertainty of where the UK would be left.

Long and messy divorces are only something you go through as a last resort. In my view, we're not at that stage.
 
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I assume the EU politniks will do their utmost to make an economic nightmare in the
UK post-exit, as a UK that is measurably the same/better than before is their nightmare scenario.

I would like to think that a UK exit could be the catalyst to start the shake-up the EU so badly
needs, but I suspect the gravy train is still sufficiently big for the EU politniks to just go meh.
 
Either way it looks like it'll be neck and neck. Even though I'm voting Out, I think Remain will clinch it by a Modric nose. If social media presence is anything to go by (often is in an age when 'professional' pollsters are outdoing each other to get predictions wrong), it couldn't be closer. Leave's Facebook page is on 530,678 supporters, Remain have 526,593...couldn't be closer although I would say that Remain voters tend to come from a younger demographic which means one would expect a disproportionate social media presence. If the average person above 65 is (supposedly) voting Leave, they probably won't be on Facebook or Twitter, so those figures are pretty impressive.

In any event, I see this referendum as a true privilege of democracy that generations fought to secure and preserve.
 
For the election I wasn't happy with the result but happy that the polsters, like football pundits, are not as clever as they thought. This vote may not even be as close as it appears, I can't call it who will win and am sorry there is no consensus. Regardless of the result there will be a very high percentage of unhappy people. In fact, in a bit of logic that is totally irrelevant, I predict that the losing percentage in the referendum will be significantly higher than the percentage of voters that elected the current government. Make of that what you will!
 
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