Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

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How will you vote in the EU referendum ?

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Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
Some of those have reassessed their predictions over the last few days. People have pointed at countries like Norway as an example, I'd point at Switzerland.

If there's no examples to quote from, your argument and facts need to be weighed by exactly the same standards.
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We've done this one! Both are unique cases. Norway is an oil economy. It would be wealthy in or out of the EU. Switzerland is unique in that they manage more if other people's money than anywhere else.

We have evidence of how our economy is performing under current conditions. We have evidence from market behaviour of the effects of a leave vote.

Let me put it this way, if you're planning a holiday in Europe this summer, buy your currency now! Because after a leave vote on Thursday you'll get a hell of a lot less for your pound!....
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
25% is still more than have a real say in Europe.

As you say, extremists grow in times of inequality, they're growing in many of the countries that are big players of the EU. Do we need to be adding their problems to ours?
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What the 25% shows is that most of the population couldn't give a rats arse about what our governments are doing. Now put that against the roughly 40-50% who are now voting for Brexit. Don't you think there's a slight hypocrisy with these voters? (OK, some of the 75% who didn't vote in our General Election are also EU supporters, but at least they're consistent. They're not claiming to be unhappy about our alleged so-called lack of democracy). Approximately half of those who are now voting Brexit because they're unhappy about giving up the powers of our elected government, couldn't be arsed to vote for them in the first place!! Which begs the question, what the heck is motivating them? And aren't they a tad stupid? I'm not aiming this at you, but this is why I find most of the Brexit followers as braindead sheep who are being played to their fears.
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
There are plenty of deals done without being part of block agreements. Being out of the EU opens, rather than closes market opportunities.
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The deals done outside of block agreements are done by countries that have to pay a tariff to trade with those blocks. If we leave the EU, then we have to pay a tariff to trade with the EU. We already trade with the rest of the world via our EU trading block agreements. If we leave then we have to negotiate deals without the weight of the trading block, which the big markets prefer to deal with. Being outside of the EU doesn't open market opportunities, it closes them off to us.
 
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NowsufferinginSpain said:
We've done this one! Both are unique cases. Norway is an oil economy. It would be wealthy in or out of the EU. Switzerland is unique in that they manage more if other people's money than anywhere else.

We have evidence of how our economy is performing under current conditions. We have evidence from market behaviour of the effects of a leave vote.

Let me put it this way, if you're planning a holiday in Europe this summer, buy your currency now! Because after a leave vote on Thursday you'll get a hell of a lot less for your pound!....
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That over-simplifies the situation in both of those Countries, and there are conflicting predictions for the future. But you seem to have faith in the predictions of institutions, but little faith in the ability of the same institutions to grab the opportunities of a volatile market.

As for Euro's, I had the foresight to buy a bundle when they were priced far better. <ok>
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
It was your answer to the question.




So as well a selling your vote, you're in favour of leaving the rest of Europe to financial ruin, having first watched our own economy decline, and seen the rise of the far right.

It's your choice, I just prefer an alternative.
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I've said nothing remotely along those lines.

It isn't much of a discussion if you're going to tell me what I said!
 
PISKIE said:
The deals done outside of block agreements are done by countries that have to pay a tariff to trade with those blocks. If we leave the EU, then we have to pay a tariff to trade with the EU. We already trade with the rest of the world via our EU trading block agreements. If we leave then we have to negotiate deals without the weight of the trading block, which the big markets prefer to deal with. Being outside of the EU doesn't open market opportunities, it closes them off to us.
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Not necessarily, plenty of deals are done outside of block agreements.
 
Treble said:
What the 25% shows is that most of the population couldn't give a rats arse about what our governments are doing. Now put that against the roughly 40-50% who are now voting for Brexit. Don't you think there's a slight hypocrisy with these voters? (OK, some of the 75% who didn't vote in our General Election are also EU supporters, but at least they're consistent. They're not claiming to be unhappy about our alleged so-called lack of democracy). Approximately half of those who are now voting Brexit because they're unhappy about giving up the powers of our elected government, couldn't be arsed to vote for them in the first place!! Which begs the question, what the heck is motivating them? And aren't they a tad stupid? I'm not aiming this at you, but this is why I find most of the Brexit followers as braindead sheep who are being played to their fears.
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Some don't vote for reasons other than "can't be arsed".
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
Not necessarily, plenty of deals are done outside of block agreements.
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You've just repeated yourself though. I've already told you how those deals will be less favourable to us if we leave. How will having to pay a tariff to the EU be better for the 50% of our exports to the EU ? How will ditching our EU trading block deals with the US, Chinese and Asian markets benefit the UK if we are no longer a part of that trading block, when those markets prioritise trading block agreements ?
 
PISKIE said:
You've just repeated yourself though. I've already told you how those deals will be less favourable to us if we leave. How will having to pay a tariff to the EU be better for the 50% of our exports to the EU ? How will ditching our EU trading block deals with the US, Chinese and Asian markets benefit the UK if we are no longer a part of that trading block, when those markets prioritise trading block agreements ?
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You've voiced your opinion, that's not the same as "telling" me. I've repeated myself, because it's the same answer, plenty of deals are done outside those agreements, and there's no reason to suppose countries will turn down trade.
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
That over-simplifies the situation in both of those Countries, and there are conflicting predictions for the future. But you seem to have faith in the predictions of institutions, but little faith in the ability of the same institutions to grab the opportunities of a volatile market.

As for Euro's, I had the foresight to buy a bundle when they were priced far better. <ok>
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These are think tanks too. With no axe to grind! They are telling you, warning you of the the consequences of voting to leave the EU bloc. If you think you, or Boris, or Farage know better, your better hope you're right!...

I haven't uneccessarily over simplified things at all. Those are the bases of those economies. Where else did you think their wealth came from?...
 
Treble said:
Accepted, but whatever the reasons, you undermine your own argument for wanting greater power for your own democratically elected government if you dont vote for it in the first place.
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I didn't say I didn't vote. I don't want greater power, I simply don't want the reduced control that comes from Europe. People may well choose not to vote in UK elections, but at least they have the option of being involved in deciding who the decision makers are, if they choose to.
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
You've voiced your opinion, that's not the same as "telling" me. I've repeated myself, because it's the same answer, plenty of deals are done outside those agreements, and there's no reason to suppose countries will turn down trade.
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Apologies if you've taken offence, no need to personalise it, but those are the facts about trading block agreements. You can check them out for yourself if you like.

You say that plenty of deals are done outside trading block agreements. Can you give me the specifics of how this will benefit the UK then, given that our biggest export market is the EU and we would have to pay a tariff to trade if we left ? Also how will the deals with the US, Chinese and Asian markets be better for us if we leave the EU, given that those markets prefer to deal with with trading block agreements ? You keep saying 'deals are done' but you haven't given any specifics about how we would forge better deals than we already have.
 
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NowsufferinginSpain said:
These are think tanks too. With no axe to grind! They are telling you, warning you of the the consequences of voting to leave the EU bloc. If you think you, or Boris, or Farage know better, your better hope you're right!...

I haven't uneccessarily over simplified things at all. Those are the bases of those economies. Where else did you think their wealth came from?...
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Some are, some aren't. Some are more pessimistic than others, and some have a vested interest. I haven't based anything on Boris or Nigel, although they and Gove seem to offer better replies in debate than Cameron managed.

There's more to the Swiss and Norwegian issues than the two things you mention.
 
PISKIE said:
Apologies if you've taken offence, no need to personalise it, but those are the facts about trading block agreements. You can check them out for yourself if you like.

You say that plenty of deals are done outside trading block agreements. Can you give me the specifics of how this will benefit the UK then, given that our biggest export market is the EU and we would have to pay a tariff to trade if we left ? Also how will the deals with the US, Chinese and Asian markets be better for us if we leave the EU, given that those markets prefer to deal with with trading block agreements ? You keep saying 'deals are done' but you haven't given any specifics about how we would forge better deals than we already have.
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No offence taken. Sorry if it read harsh. As with economists that aren't as doom and gloom as some on here are proclaiming, I'll not quote specifics, because it then just spirals into minutiae. You've said yourself that deals are done outside these agreements, and countries will want to trade where ever they can.
 
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