Off Topic The Politics Thread

[sb_73]

Urban farm workers will have the same living conditions as all the other seasonal workers! On the farm.

If we leave the EU, the benefit of patient identification is that it will pick up non-entitled claimants coming from within and outside the EU. At present, there are numbers of wealthy claimants abusing the system flying in from Africa.

And what do you suggest happens when these non entitled people turn up in A&E. Are they refused treatment? Or do you require a credit card, or confiscate their passports? Will we need extra security at health care facilities, in case it gets nasty? These things are much better sorted between governments, not at the point of care. All of the rules are in place now, hospitals don't claim the cash because of the bureaucracy involved and the extra staff they would need.

 

[sb_73]

Of course not. I'm happy to accept people have valid reasons for remain I just wish they'd accept people have their own valid reasons for exit. He has been posted twice on here as an "expert" yet nobody has linked the source of his academic funding. For all his "aw shucks here's my totally unbiased assessment of the EU speil" he didn't himself and I think it's worth pointing out, his sincerity in his beliefs notwithstanding.

Fair enough. He did nail his colours to the remain mast in the first minute of that talk though.

I was unfair on Johnson above. He is the most patently insincere, but I think Cameron, Osborne and Corbyn are in the same camp - they are all reluctant Remainers, would genuinely love to leave but can't figure out a way to do it without what they fear will be crippling damage to the country. Perhaps if they said that they would be taken more seriously.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

And what do you suggest happens when these non entitled people turn up in A&E. Are they refused treatment? Or do you require a credit card, or confiscate their passports? Will we need extra security at health care facilities, in case it gets nasty? These things are much better sorted between governments, not at the point of care. All of the rules are in place now, hospitals don't claim the cash because of the bureaucracy involved and the extra staff they would need.

If people, often well heeled, are flying in to Heathrow to get free health treatment, it's fraudulent and you can't sort it out between governments because under your system, no one knows who they are or which country they came from.

Otherwise, let's be mugs, call it the International Health System, and watch it crash.

 

[sb_73]

If people, often well heeled, are flying in to Heathrow to get free health treatment, it's fraudulent and you can't sort it out between governments because under your system, no one knows who they are or which country they came from.

Otherwise, let's be mugs, call it the International Health System, and watch it crash.

What actual happens when they are found out at the front line Goldie?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

What actual happens when they are found out at the front line Goldie?

If it's an emergency in this country, then they are treated, their identity established and the NHS recompensated by health insurance (which should be a condition of visitors entering the UK anyway) or inter governmental account.

If they've come to claim treatment fraudulently, then only life saving treatment should be given unless paid for, and they should have shown evidence of health insurance on entry anyway

 

[qprbeth]

He's a Monnet scholar bought by the EU and paid to spread their propaganda.

The European Commission is the executive of the European Union and promotes its general interest.

The programme includes the network of Jean Monnet European Centres of Excellence, university-level institutions recognised by the European Commission for high quality research into, and teaching of, topics relating to European integration. The Commission also funds Jean Monnet Chairs and Jean Monnet teaching modules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet_Programme

Prof Michael Dougan M.A. (Cantab), Ph.D (Cantab)
Professor of European Law and Jean Monnet Chair in EU Law

https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law/staff/michael-dougan/research/

Sorry Telford, you do not understand academia and how it works.

These sorts of chairs are through out the University system
The Rothschild Professor of Mathematics
The Disney Professor of Archeology
Tata Steel Professor of Metalurgy

Even the J.R.R. Tolkien Professor of English Literature and Language, it don't mean you have to believe in Hobbits

 

[sb_73]

If it's an emergency in this country, then they are treated, their identity established and the NHS recompensated by health insurance (which should be a condition of visitors entering the UK anyway) or inter governmental account.

If they've come to claim treatment fraudulently, then only life saving treatment should be given unless paid for, and they should have shown evidence of health insurance on entry anyway

OK, so essentially, even if you do not need a visa to visit the UK, you will need to demonstrate that you have insurance to cover health requirements, and this will be checked on entry?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

OK, so essentially, even if you do not need a visa to visit the UK, you will need to demonstrate that you have insurance to cover health requirements, and this will be checked on entry?

Yes, unless there were was a bilateral agreement between the UK and the country of the visitor's origin enabling reimbursement. In short, the days when the NHS doesn't verify entitlement when treating a patient should be a thing of the past

 

[Telford Ranger]

Fair enough. He did nail his colours to the remain mast in the first minute of that talk though.

I was unfair on Johnson above. He is the most patently insincere, but I think Cameron, Osborne and Corbyn are in the same camp - they are all reluctant Remainers, would genuinely love to leave but can't figure out a way to do it without what they fear will be crippling damage to the country. Perhaps if they said that they would be taken more seriously.

If I wasn't quite so invested in the outcome I think I'd be enjoying the Tory sideshow more than I am. It's like the ultimate high stakes poker game with everybody going all-in with their careers/jobs/ambitions

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and I've totally given up trying to work out any of their motivations. Let's be honest when IDS resigns over welfare then we really have gone through the looking glass. Corbyn reluctant remainer sounds about right. The post referendum fall out will be interesting but for all the the talk of Conservative divisions I think Labour has the more divided party (top to bottom) and they'll really struggle to reconnect with a large part of their traditional base should we remain.

 

[TootingExcess]

Meant to post this beauty the other day for a bit of levity

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[KooPeeArr]

Meant to post this beauty the other day for a bit of levity

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Please tell me he got crushed by a falling cow...

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Please tell me he got crushed by a falling cow...

Afraid not, he's been in a film since with Judi Dench...

 

[Telford Ranger]

Sorry Telford, you do not understand academia and how it works.

These sorts of chairs are through out the University system
The Rothschild Professor of Mathematics
The Disney Professor of Archeology
Tata Steel Professor of Metalurgy

Even the J.R.R. Tolkien Professor of English Literature and Language, it don't mean you have to believe in Hobbits

As far as I'm aware I'm not voting on the existence of hobbits this week, but if I were and the J.R.R. Tolkien Professor of English Literature and Language was urging me to believe in them I'd be looking at who was bankrolling them. #orcslivesmatter#sauronrules#entsrsogay

Flippancy aside Beth I take your point, but the funding link has to be addressed surely? As far as I know none of the chairs you've listed have the kind of political slant or clout an EU funded scholarship program has and certainly have no bearing on an EU referendum.

Three links and selected quotes on Jean Monnet scholars:



From an Internet dictionary [apparently] providing concise explanations of terms used in the EU debate:

"The EU pays for hundreds of, so-called, Monnet professors to teach about European integration at European universities and high schools.

They have an important influence on the ideas of social science academics, increasing support for EU integration."

http://en.euabc.com/word/673



From UKIP:

"To learn that one and a half thousand academics around the world are being paid by the EU to promote EU integration is deeply concerning and akin to the sort of deliberate indoctrination one would expect in Cold War Communism, not in the twenty first century western world."

http://www.ukip.org/eu_subverting_uk_education_as_ukip_reveals_eu_funded_university_professors




From the TES:

Robert Ackrill, a professor at Nottingham Trent University who won a Jean Monnet chair to support teaching on the economics of the EU, said that there was “nothing” in the application process “that requires us to show we have delivered pro-EU views”.

The award money is used to support teaching and research, he said. “I receive no money from the chair into my pocket.”

https://www.timeshighereducation.co...s-deny-claims-of-bias-from-brexit-campaigners



Pay your money and take your choice right? It's a minefield Beth. and while I'm happy to concede I've never been one for academia it won't stop me questioning "experts" and their motivations which is, I think, a sound principle.

 

[Stroller]

As far as I'm aware I'm not voting on the existence of hobbits this week, but if I were and the J.R.R. Tolkien Professor of English Literature and Language was urging me to believe in them I'd be looking at who was bankrolling them. #orcslivesmatter#sauronrules#entsrsogay

Flippancy aside Beth I take your point, but the funding link has to be addressed surely? As far as I know none of the chairs you've listed have the kind of political slant or clout an EU funded scholarship program has and certainly have no bearing on an EU referendum.

Three links and selected quotes on Jean Monnet scholars:



From an Internet dictionary [apparently] providing concise explanations of terms used in the EU debate:

"The EU pays for hundreds of, so-called, Monnet professors to teach about European integration at European universities and high schools.

They have an important influence on the ideas of social science academics, increasing support for EU integration."

http://en.euabc.com/word/673



From UKIP:

"To learn that one and a half thousand academics around the world are being paid by the EU to promote EU integration is deeply concerning and akin to the sort of deliberate indoctrination one would expect in Cold War Communism, not in the twenty first century western world."

http://www.ukip.org/eu_subverting_uk_education_as_ukip_reveals_eu_funded_university_professors




From the TES:

Robert Ackrill, a professor at Nottingham Trent University who won a Jean Monnet chair to support teaching on the economics of the EU, said that there was “nothing” in the application process “that requires us to show we have delivered pro-EU views”.

The award money is used to support teaching and research, he said. “I receive no money from the chair into my pocket.”

https://www.timeshighereducation.co...s-deny-claims-of-bias-from-brexit-campaigners



Pay your money and take your choice right? It's a minefield Beth. and while I'm happy to concede I've never been one for academia it won't stop me questioning "experts" and their motivations which is, I think, a sound principle.

Very good, but what about what he had to say?

****ing experts!

 

[Supergod00]

Very good, but what about what he had to say?

****ing experts!

None of the leave side have answers to these types of questions, all they can do is cry foul and claim that the experts are either wrong or have another motive without giving any substance behind their argument.

 

[Telford Ranger]

Very good, but what about what he had to say?

****ing experts!

I'm not gonna lie Strolls. I got 15 minutes in when sb_73 and Beth derailed me with a typically devious remain ploy and in between Monnet Scholar Wiki holes, Sunday dinner, cat issues and getting ready for work tomorrow (up at Farron Young o'clock for a 6 am start, yeay

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) I haven't got back to it yet. I will finish it tomorrow after The Battle Of The Bastards and get back to you.

Confirmation bias incoming.....

 

[Sooperhoop]

Seems the momentum that Brexit had built up last week has been stalled by the events of Thursday and it now promises to be a very ugly run-up to the vote on Thursday. The fact that the polls are neck and neck is not a good omen for the 'Leave' campaign and, no doubt, 'Project Fear' will have the 'pedal to the metal' in the next three days. I still think my original forecast of 55-45% to 'Remain' will be the outcome...

 

[Supergod00]

Not that it should be the number one priority in this and it may well have been discussed already but has anyone considered what effect a brexit would have on qpr and the football league in general? The likes of Polter and Chery wouldn't pass current visa requirements if they weren't eu players, not sure the government would make special allowances for footballers in regards to visas, very much restricting the pool of players available for teams outside of the prem!

 

[Telford Ranger]

None of the leave side have answers to these types of questions, all they can do is cry foul and claim that the experts are either wrong or have another motive without giving any substance behind their argument.

I've done no such thing. Pointing out that "experts" might have another motive is neither crying foul nor claiming they have another motive. It's pointing out a potential conflict of interest, the conflict in this case being the ability to make a dispassionate, unprejudiced case for a particular argument when you are being paid to advance that argument.

 

[Supergod00]

I've done no such thing. Pointing out that "experts" might have another motive is neither crying foul nor claiming they have another motive. It's pointing out a potential conflict of interest, the conflict in this case being the ability to make a dispassionate, unprejudiced case for a particular argument when you are being paid to advance that argument.

As an expert in eu law he'd probably do far better if we voted out as he'd have endless supply of businesses and individuals in need of his services. My point is that rather then giving a structured argument against what he's saying you just seem to want to question his motives, if you want to question motives the first person you should talk about is Boris and his attempted power grab on the country!