For me, in a perfect world, reversion of an undemocratic, intrusive EU back to a common market of trading nations In the meantime, we negotiate with the EU, bearing in mind we are a big customer to countries like Germany and France, to trade but without compulsory free movement of people
So you can't explain it without reference to the EU. I'll ask again, what does being pro Europe actually mean, assume that the EU doesn't exist. A 'common market of trading nations' is continent agnostic, you could have one including New Zealand, Costa Rica and Rwanda.
It would be a single market without tariffs. If certain countries wanted to operate a Schengen type arrangement, they would be free to do so, so too opting voluntarily for free movement of people within consenting countries eg France and Germany
So being 'pro Europe' consists of a single market where the UK can opt out of free movement of people and Schengen (which of course we already have an opt out from) and the dismantling of the EU superstructure?
Yes, that's my definition, and in the event of Brexit and subsequent unrest on the Continent (where member states demand their own referenda), it's just possible it is where we are headed
OK, I think I just misjudged what you might have meant by 'pro Europe'. Essentially your view is defined by the UK relationship with European countries, which is fine of course, I thought 'pro Europe' might refer to something rather broader. Perhaps something to do with 'identity' and 'destiny'.
Well, here's a thing. She was my wife's pen pal when they were teenagers, she (my wife) stayed with her in France, and La Brioche spent some time in.........Handsworth. Sadly (for me) they did not keep in touch for long.
It means enjoying the culture, the food & drink , the variety of environments & the local people .Fortunately we don't have to co habit with their political leaders during our sojourns on holiday, business trips etc The problem is that there is now a major anti establishment movement in most EU countries & recurring violence /demonstrations against the break down of what i see as European -ness in Europe. My sister lives permanently in France & they have to get news from Al Jazherra because it is being censored on French channels. Internationalism is the way forward particularly for such a multi cultural nation as ours which does have an overdeveloped sense of international responsibility
So you are all for Europe as a holiday destination. Jolly D. I won't ask exactly what 'enjoying the local people' consists of.
Try Friends United and tell your wife after. I never had a pen pal, but if I had, I'd probably have ended up with the German equivalent of Anne Widdecombe
Apparently she was a very serious young lady. My wife was heavily into (underage) pubbing and clubbing in glamorous Brum, and young Jules was rather shocked. Probably by getting on a plane in France in the early 1980s and getting off in 1954.
you have joined the sneering classes i see best wishes for you downward spiral there are major socio economic problems in Europe & you want to reduce it to that which you can understand or feel comfortable dealing with .
You set 'em up, I'll knock 'em back. Feel free to make any assumptions about me you like, it's just an Internet forum. But the reaction leads me to suspect I've touched a nerve (unintentionally, I was just having a laugh). Focus on the UKs 'destiny' Iain, it suits you better than some faux concern about foreigners.
Wanting to leave the EU does not equal a dislike of foreigners. I think remain are getting a bit desperate and I'm sure the racism card will be played all the way up to the vote.
That's true Col, that applies to most on here that want to leave I'm sure. But you can expect the fact that Britain First, the BNP and the EDL are all definitely for Leave to be trotted out. Even I'm agreeing with Gorgeous Gideon and Teresa May!
Just to be clear, I am not accusing anybody of racism or even of disliking foreigners. I do doubt that some have Europe's interests at heart to the same degree as they do Britain's. Which is fair enough, and nothing to be ashamed about. I was rather surprised by the tone of Iain's response to my barbed but lighthearted comment, especially given his (cynical, even by my standards) approach to this - emotion is all, facts are meaningless, say anything to get your own way. Seems I misjudged him. I should have remembered that I wasn't baiting you or Goldie.
