Crikey Oh well here goes 1. I don't see any difference at all between previous evictions and these ones 2. I don't see how a reversal necessarily leads to further evictions at all. All the people who have been forced to move could be simply contacted and offered their original seats back if they wanted them. 3. Yes I'm in two supporters groups and no I'm not active in either. You may have seen a previous post on this thread where I stated my appreciation for those who are active, but if not then I'll say it again. I'm extremely thankful that people spend their own time to do so 4. If you've never had a season ticket, changed seats every time you go, and are happy to move to save money, then you won't appreciate the impact of being evicted because you won't have built up the relationships with those around you. 5. No anyone can have an opinion, it's a message board, it's pretty much all it is for. I don't think I've critisised anyone for having an opinion either, but if anyone thinks I have then I apologise. I will however express different views...which is one of things that this board is for I think 6. I think I explained already one option that could be done so there are no victims (point 2) However that would require the club to leave away fans where they are. A campaign could be mounted to do that, but I'm not sure that enough people would want to do that. In fact it could even be that most people want away fans in Upper West, the point is I don't think any supporter group knows what their members think about that point in isolation to the scheme? If most wanted them in there then a group could even campaign to support the club in moving them there, I wouldn't but that's democracy for you I think that covers your questions?
What's snide about that? It is what happens, it's entirely understandable too Some people will buy tickets in the PL that won't in the Championship. It's exactly why the club wanted to close Upper West if we stayed down, but not if we go up
You post a lot but nothing really means anything. Do you understand that memberships have been on sale for a while now? Do you understand that many of your victims have used their own judgement and made their own arrangements? Do you understand the irony that the two main board complainers are not season ticket buyers, are not involved in the process and, as far as I am aware (let me know otherwise?), are doing **** all about it but whinge about others doing something, but not something to their liking. You really couldn't make this up . . . but you could, couldn't you.
Exactly, so why mention it. To have a snide dig at them is all I can see, as it had nothing to do with the discussion.
Describing us as 'complainers' and 'whingers' doing nothing, in your own whine saying you're doing nothing, sums up a big part of what you don't get. I'm wrapped in doing something more interesting at the minute, but I'll perhaps reply more fully once I've watched this paint dry.
Err Yes it did It was in reply to Chazz who posted something about knowing a family who were buying tickets for the first time (I'm paraphrasing) So I responded saying I did too Nothing snide in the slightest if you actually read the discussion that you think it didn't have anything to do with
'Victims' haven't had a choice but to make arrangements if they want to keep a season pass. That's not the same as choosing to change your seat every game because you want to I shan't talk for Dutch but i don't think it's ironic that I'm someone who is raising a point about evictions despite not having a season ticket because one of the main reasons that I don't have one is due to previously being evicted...so it's a very relevant point And I'm not whinging about anything that's being done, I was asking whether something separste was being done regarding away fans staying where they are, but it isn't. Now I know
Crikey Oh well here goes 1. I don't see any difference at all between previous evictions and these ones What's that got to do with my post? I have tried to differentiate between evictions and migration as it was getting confused. 2. I don't see how a reversal necessarily leads to further evictions at all. All the people who have been forced to move could be simply contacted and offered their original seats back if they wanted them. We need more info on that. 3. Yes I'm in two supporters groups and no I'm not active in either. You may have seen a previous post on this thread where I stated my appreciation for those who are active, but if not then I'll say it again. I'm extremely thankful that people spend their own time to do so Good, I think they do their best in the circumstances that confront them; I do not believe they deserve the continuous criticism they receive from Dutch (and you seem to be agreeing with him) 4. If you've never had a season ticket, changed seats every time you go, and are happy to move to save money, then you won't appreciate the impact of being evicted because you won't have built up the relationships with those around you. I haven't said anything about money, I accepted the relationship issue some might have, but I think it is overstated. I do know that change comes to us all and the longer it is absent the harder it is when it catches up with you. That is regrettable, but so many things are worse. 5. No anyone can have an opinion, it's a message board, it's pretty much all it is for. I don't think I've critisised anyone for having an opinion either, but if anyone thinks I have then I apologise. I will however express different views...which is one of things that this board is for I think We both agree on that, just as I agree with OLM's assumption that there will be an element of support that embrace the changes - I think most will see the loss of concessions as poor, but some are quickly snapping up their reduced rates - they call it life! 6. I think I explained already one option that could be done so there are no victims (point 2) However that would require the club to leave away fans where they are. A campaign could be mounted to do that, but I'm not sure that enough people would want to do that. In fact it could even be that most people want away fans in Upper West, the point is I don't think any supporter group knows what their members think about that point in isolation to the scheme? If most wanted them in there then a group could even campaign to support the club in moving them there, I wouldn't but that's democracy for you Do you think, even if there was sufficient support, a campaign would benefit anyone before August? That has been my point. Any campaign needs to take a longer and more constructive view - but it also needs owners prepared to listen. I think everyone should consider whether or not these campaigns have a serious risk of becoming a negative, I think most folk are sick to the back teeth of calls to arms. Maybe. just maybe, others might be considering a different approach that they cannot share with random posters on forums, even though the midnight cowboys will continue with their constant criticism and vague plans. I think that covers your questions? Thanks for you response, Dennis: at least yours was civil.
Dennis, would you be so kind as to point out I haven't criticised the supporters groups. He's just trying to sneak that in, in the hope it becomes a fact.. Ta.
Nope, paint still not dry. In the mean time, you can call a discusion of options a whinge if you like. It does seem apt once you join in. Hopefully my spokesman will clarify.
So who are you criticising for not taking action, making a noise, raising a campaign or whatever it is you want doing about the moves?
Your criticism of the actions of others isn't a discussion of options; what options have you offered? Hopefully your spokesman will have a better grasp of reality than you have, but I think he might dodge this one.
You. Then again, it could perhaps I'm 'pointing out' that it surprises me that nobody is doing anything, rather than 'criticising' as you claim. You do seem to default to 'do nothing' as a form of protest, right up until it's clear something should have been done.
Well, some of the options could include the ones you've tried and failed to pull holes in...but you need to make your mind up. I've said little is being done, so it's hard to puzzle out which 'actions' I'm supposed to be criticising, whI haven't 'criticised' anything. You seem to get scared whenever discussions talk of solutions, and try to send the discussion everywhere but straight. Anyway, I'm running out of time to watch this paint dry, it'll be time to watch the grass grow soon. If I cut it, I'll give you the hay to help your strawman building hobby.
1. I don't see any difference at all between previous evictions and these ones What's that got to do with my post? I have tried to differentiate between evictions and migration as it was getting confused. I haven't made any point about people moving seats ever. My point has only been about those who have had to move because they're not allowed to re buy their seat 2. I don't see how a reversal necessarily leads to further evictions at all. All the people who have been forced to move could be simply contacted and offered their original seats back if they wanted them. We need more info on that. What info? Unless they have sold the seats of the people evicted, which I'm assuming they haven't, then if they gave up on the plans they could just offer them back 3. Yes I'm in two supporters groups and no I'm not active in either. You may have seen a previous post on this thread where I stated my appreciation for those who are active, but if not then I'll say it again. I'm extremely thankful that people spend their own time to do so Good, I think they do their best in the circumstances that confront them; I do not believe they deserve the continuous criticism they receive from Dutch (and you seem to be agreeing with him) I agree with him on lots of things, but I don't think I have criticised them at all. This debate started when I tried to separate the drive to move the away fans from the scheme itself. 4. If you've never had a season ticket, changed seats every time you go, and are happy to move to save money, then you won't appreciate the impact of being evicted because you won't have built up the relationships with those around you. I haven't said anything about money, I accepted the relationship issue some might have, but I think it is overstated. I do know that change comes to us all and the longer it is absent the harder it is when it catches up with you. That is regrettable, but so many things are worse. We just have different opinions on it then. I think the relationship issue is understated. I mentioned money because you said you were happy to move to save money 5. No anyone can have an opinion, it's a message board, it's pretty much all it is for. I don't think I've critisised anyone for having an opinion either, but if anyone thinks I have then I apologise. I will however express different views...which is one of things that this board is for I think We both agree on that, just as I agree with OLM's assumption that there will be an element of support that embrace the changes - I think most will see the loss of concessions as poor, but some are quickly snapping up their reduced rates - they call it life! True 6. I think I explained already one option that could be done so there are no victims (point 2) However that would require the club to leave away fans where they are. A campaign could be mounted to do that, but I'm not sure that enough people would want to do that. In fact it could even be that most people want away fans in Upper West, the point is I don't think any supporter group knows what their members think about that point in isolation to the scheme? If most wanted them in there then a group could even campaign to support the club in moving them there, I wouldn't but that's democracy for you Do you think, even if there was sufficient support, a campaign would benefit anyone before August? That has been my point. Any campaign needs to take a longer and more constructive view - but it also needs owners prepared to listen. I think everyone should consider whether or not these campaigns have a serious risk of becoming a negative, I think most folk are sick to the back teeth of calls to arms. Maybe. just maybe, others might be considering a different approach that they cannot share with random posters on forums, even though the midnight cowboys will continue with their constant criticism and vague plans. I'll ignore the last part of this and assume you weren't being snide either! I don't think the current owners will listen at all My point earlier today was that I was asking questions as to whether there was a separate campaign regarding the forced evictions due to the away fan move or not. Because they might introduce concessions if they had to, but that wouldn't help those moved forcibly. I do think that if we got new owners they could be very quickly convinced to leave the away fans where they are now if there was strong enough feeling, but I don't know if that's what other fans want, neither do supporters groups so they couldn't campaign for that I think that covers your questions? Thanks for you response, Dennis: at least yours was civil. Thank you
