Euro 2016 thread

[No Kane No Gain]

Alves is a ****ing idiot. Luckily Kane was okay, could have been a lot worse.

Rooney's trying far too hard to control everything. Should've scored the free header he had and has spent the whole first half either running into Kane and Vardy's space, or coming deep and trying to play a ridiculous pass. He needs to calm down and stop trying to prove he can do everything. Walker has had an excellent first half though.

 

[O.Spurcat]

Can you imagine Chris Kamara on that challenge ....

He took his ****ing head off Jeff !!!

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

Rooney's trying far too hard to control everything. Should've scored the free header he had and has spent the whole first half either running into Kane and Vardy's space, or coming deep and trying to play a ridiculous pass. He needs to calm down and stop trying to prove he can do everything. Walker has had an excellent first half though.

Playing players out of position just to get them into the team is illogical. Nobody looks comfortable in the roles they're asked to play. For me, it's Rooney or Alli as a no. 10 behind Kane or Vardy. As Kane and Alli play together at club level, that would appear to be a sensible combination. Vardy is a great option off the bench later in the game. Rooney is versatile and could be in one of the forward positions either side of Kane, but the others are less comfortable out of their usual positions so why pick them to play out of position?

 

[Citizen Kane]

Playing players out of position just to get them into the team is illogical. Nobody looks comfortable in the roles they're asked to play. For me, it's Rooney or Alli as a no. 10 behind Kane or Vardy. As Kane and Alli play together at club level, that would appear to be a sensible combination. Vardy is a great option off the bench later in the game. Rooney is versatile and could be in one of the forward positions either side of Kane, but the others are less comfortable out of their usual positions so why pick them to play out of position?

Rooney is the problem Luke, its blindingly obvious to anyone who isn't a United fan. Hook him, and suddenly the other pegs fall nicely into place.

 

[O.Spurcat]

Well that was fun.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Playing players out of position just to get them into the team is illogical. Nobody looks comfortable in the roles they're asked to play. For me, it's Rooney or Alli as a no. 10 behind Kane or Vardy. As Kane and Alli play together at club level, that would appear to be a sensible combination. Vardy is a great option off the bench later in the game. Rooney is versatile and could be in one of the forward positions either side of Kane, but the others are less comfortable out of their usual positions so why pick them to play out of position?

It's a balance of getting your best players out there and also creating a side that's balanced and complements eachother. Rooney of a few years ago would be undroppable, you'd build the team around him. Rooney in his current situation only fits into this team when we play the system that started tonight, and as we saw, it doesn't really work for the team as a whole. The Kane-Vardy partnership doesn't look great either, although they've only had a limited number of chances.

I think we'd be a lot better placed for this tournament if we'd spent the run up playing 433 and testing a rotation where the striker and one of the wingers can swap from time-to-time, as I think that's the best way to get Kane and Vardy out there at the same time with the quality they bring. If it didn't work then we'd have to make the tough call, pick one and then get another player out there that suits the system better.

 

[Citizen Kane]

It's a balance of getting your best players out there and also creating a side that's balanced and complements eachother. Rooney of a few years ago would be undroppable, you'd build the team around him. Rooney in his current situation only fits into this team when we play the system that started tonight, and as we saw, it doesn't really work for the team as a whole. The Kane-Vardy partnership doesn't look great either, although they've only had a limited number of chances.

I think we'd be a lot better placed for this tournament if we'd spent the run up playing 433 and testing a rotation where the striker and one of the wingers can swap from time-to-time, as I think that's the best way to get Kane and Vardy out there at the same time with the quality they bring. If it didn't work then we'd have to make the tough call, pick one and then get another player out there that suits the system better.

Ultimately, if 50% of your outfield players all play for the same team, the logical thing to do would be to mimic that team's tactics. For me, if he starts our 5 lads in France, the line-up has to be:

Hart
Walker Liability Liability Rose
Dier Henderson
Vardy Alli Lallalalala/Sterling
Kane

With Walker & Rose pushing on the overlap and Dier dropping in next to whichever clowns play at CB. Lallana offers more than Sterling defensively so he'd be a good option against teams with strong attacks, but I don't see why that team won't cope comfortably in the group stages. The team we saw this evening would probably go home with 2 points from the group.

Removing serial square pegs Rooney and Milner from the starting line-up goes a long way to solving so many problems.

 

[paultheplug]

Why on earth was Kane taking set pieces. If Rooney has to play let him take them and allow Kane to get in a scoring position. Roy really proving tonight that he is tactically unsound. Hopefully Rooney will get injured in training and everybody can play in their preferred position

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Ultimately, if 50% of your outfield players all play for the same team, the logical thing to do would be to mimic that team's tactics. For me, if he starts our 5 lads in France, the line-up has to be:

Hart
Walker Liability Liability Rose
Dier Henderson
Vardy Alli Lallalalala/Sterling
Kane

With Walker & Rose pushing on the overlap and Dier dropping in next to whichever clowns play at CB. Lallana offers more than Sterling defensively so he'd be a good option against teams with strong attacks, but I don't see why that team won't cope comfortably in the group stages. The team we saw this evening would probably go home with 2 points from the group.

Removing serial square pegs Rooney and Milner from the starting line-up goes a long way to solving so many problems.

The reason we work so well with that sytem though is that we have much better centrebacks and a Dembele. Maybe it would work playing 4231 with England but we haven't tried it so I'm reluctant for us to do it now. England can still use some of the same principles that made us so good in a 433, we can play with intensity and quick passing, just with a bit more emphasis on protecting the defence.

 

[Citizen Kane]

The reason we work so well with that sytem though is that we have much better centrebacks and a Dembele. Maybe it would work playing 4231 with England but we haven't tried it so I'm reluctant for us to do it now. England can still use some of the same principles that made us so good in a 433, we can play with intensity and quick passing, just with a bit more emphasis on protecting the defence.

4231 certainly looked good enough against Germany, and brought the best out of the Spurs contingent. All the noise in the media this week about outscoring the opposition was actually quite a sensible approach; it means that England can just go out there and play without the usual fear that suffocates our national tournaments. Being as it is that defensively we are one of the weakest teams in the tournament, it makes sense to set up in such a way where the opposition are so preoccupied handling your array of attackers that they don't get round to doing much attacking themselves. 4-3-3 just doesn't accomplish this - Milner makes things too pedestrian and Rooney just buzzes around the pitch getting in everyone's way whilst doing nothing constructive. If we drop those two, perhaps 433 makes sense. But I still think 4231 is the way forward.

 

[vimhawk]

Its a pointless discussion as long as Rooney remains undroppable. Nothing could be clearer to me that he is the no.1 problem. I can't wait to hear the excuses of the Rooney apologists in the media tomorrow.

 

["Thanks for that Brian"]

"Have I decided my best 11? That is difficult and will depend on the night.

"I am happy I have got 16/17 good players and happy with the options available to us."

Depends on the night? WTF? What does that mean? Depends on if Russia turn up? Depends upon whether Wayne looks good in the moonlight? Depends upon whether Roy's brave enough to tell Mr Potato Head "I'm going with Dele Alli because he's better than you are."

He's got 16/17 good players. Great,I wonder what the other 6/7 bad players think about that?

Thank you, Roy Hodgson. You are the perfect FA appointment, ****ing useless, just like your employers. I'm glad to say I haven't watched any of these games and am seriously considering avoiding the Group games if Roy keeps picking Rooney.

 

[Dier Hard]

Woy produces yet another fantastic display from our superb, young, hungry England side. Really excited to see what he has in store for the Euro's. The sheer thought of Milner's sidewards passes while being deployed as a makeshift right winger at times, Rooney's undeniable quality at number 10, the solidity of the CB's and the tantalising quickness of Woy's tactics and style will just be a joy to watch!

So pumped to see the gaffer lift that European trophy!

Woohoooo go Woy!

Hodg-Sons on fire, your country is terrified! Hodg-Sons on fire, your country is terrified!

 

[vimhawk]

This also links to the attributes of a football manger thread, but a manger has to know when they're wrong and change. Hodgson doesn't strike me as someone who can adapt to what works better than his original plan. So for example he found out (luckily due to injury etc) a few games ago against Germany that England play better without Rooney and with Vardy as impact sub. Last night he showed he is incapable of adapting and decides to play Rooney, thus impacting badly on Kane, Vardy and Alli (and the whole team). The great managers do change when it isn't going right, and people probably forget that they do because of the end result. Hodgson might do something cosmetic and play Clyne instead of Walker (?) or something equally pointless, ignoring the fact that the main fault is his (and the FA). The FA have been so committed in the past two years to building up the Rooney legend that they seem completely unable to get out of the groove when it comes to something important. If we flukily do well at the Euros it will be despite Hodgson not because of him.

 

[Citizen Kane]

Hodgson admitted last night in his post match interview that England are 'not the finished article'. What the **** has he been doing for 4 years?!
He's the type of manager who is so myopic you could give him a millennium in charge of a side and he still wouldn't find a winning formula.

 

[The Changing Man]

Hodgson admitted last night in his post match interview that England are 'not the finished article'. What the **** has he been doing for 6 years?!
He's the type of manager who is so myopic you could give him a millennium in charge of a side and he still wouldn't find a winning formula.

I totally agree, I honestly believe that the man hasn't got a clue shoe horning Kane, Vardy, Rooney and Alli into the same team is just mad. It just doesn't look like 'a team' they are all gifted individuals but last night showed that you can't pick them all. It was almost though he picked the team based on what would give him the least grief from the media. And don't get me started on the 'diamond' its an awful formation and as soon as we play anyone decent poor old Dier will be exposed and probably shoulder the blame when our midfield gets mullered by the first decent passing team we play. I actually think he could resign today and someone else take this squad to the tournament and get better results than he will, I hope he proves me wrong but if we get past the last 16 round I will be amazed

 

[The RDBD]

Hodgson admitted last night in his post match interview that England are 'not the finished article'. What the **** has he been doing for 6 years?!
He's the type of manager who is so myopic you could give him a millennium in charge of a side and he still wouldn't find a winning formula.

England are the international counterpart of the Goons.

Tournament finals are their CL group + KO stages.
The FA are their Kroenke : qualify = cash + new kit sales.
The manager is their Wenger : predictable + non-controversial + achieves the above.

No wonder the Goon plastics support France etc.
They have already had 9 months of the above BEFORE the summer begins.

 

[vimhawk]

Agree with Changing Man that when our midfield is overrun, Dier might well get the blame even though he probably didn't have a chance anyway! Noticed the player ratings from last night and several players scored badly through no fault of their own.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Agree with Changing Man that when our midfield is overrun, Dier might well get the blame even though he probably didn't have a chance anyway! Noticed the player ratings from last night and several players scored badly through no fault of their own.

Checking some of the ratings given by Sky, BT and various papers, it's hard not to notice a few Narratives breaking out, for example...
BT and The Standard were critical of Dier's "limited creativity" compared to Wilshere. Do they know their roles aren't remotely comparible?
BT, Sky and The Grauniad don't talk about Milner's performance, they talk about Wilshere and/or Henderson instead
The Grauniad and Sky both write about Vardy as if he's an upstart who should move aside for Rooney or Sturridge
Sky, BT, and The Grauniad all say Smalling had a great game based solely on him scoring a goal, ignoring his poor performance
The Grauniad, Sky and BT all criticise Kane's set pieces - rather than aim the (justified) criticism at the fool who had Kane taking corners
Sky and BT were both happy to say Sterling and Sturridge were vastly superior to Kane and Vardy - which is questionnable at best

The only reasonably objective ratings I found were the Telegraph and, worryingly, the Wail - everyone else was either ludicrously biased or using any excuse to push their "this player over that player" agenda.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

I think we forget how much of these England players' success at club level depends on the contributions of the foreign stars - many of whom are the creative hubs of their teams and are comfortable receiving the ball, probing and passing e.g Eriksen, Mahrez, Ozil, Coutinho. Workrate and/or pace are the best assets of all the England players vying for front 5 positions. As usual. we have few players who are comfortable on the ball - receiving. holding and using it repeatedly in the middle of the pitch and around the box. if Rooney is in form, he still represents the best option, although it may be best to play him in a free role rather than as a no.10 or deeper midfielder.