Off Topic European Debate Thread
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Some good points but business people aren't voting for 'eurovision' you do business with people who are best equipped to do that business. no one expects the rest of the world to 'queue up' but they certainly wouldn't have any reason to shun us.
Don't know whether to laugh or cry at this ffs
Also, would love to know what's wrong with a Muslim being Mayor of London?
Oh and to contribute to the thread, I'm largely undecided. I can see the points but a lot of the 'Out' arguments are over petty things that are unlikely to alter our day-to-day lives (fishing, etc). It also doesn't help that all of the chavvy BNP-voters that I've known all support the Out compaign ('bcoz immigration init'). Having said that, the level of power the EU has over us is becoming ridiculous, and it's becoming something different from what it was set up for.
Personally, I'd rather stay in, but reduce the power of the EU, hand back more sovereignty to the individual countries (however that may be), and keep the 'global' laws for the most important issues such as Human Rights. Any Governance of these should be conducted by an office elected by the whole of Europe, rather than simply chosen.
So basically, undecided on how to vote, but if it were possible, it would be 'In, but with significant change'.
Personally, I'd rather stay in, but reduce the power of the EU, hand back more sovereignty to the individual countries (however that may be), and keep the 'global' laws for the most important issues such as Human Rights. Any Governance of these should be conducted by an office elected by the whole of Europe, rather than simply chosen.
So basically, undecided on how to vote, but if it were possible, it would be 'In, but with significant change'.
The pro vote seems to centre entirely on economics - Profit, wealth and greed. The idea that wealth creates a righteous circle where that wealth filters down to the disadvantaged, the vulnerable etc, and that almost uncontrolled immigration is a economic necessity.
Working in social care I can see the above is not happening. Services are in decline.
We do not have a enough houses, schools, services for the population as it is.
Out...
Working in social care I can see the above is not happening. Services are in decline.
We do not have a enough houses, schools, services for the population as it is.
Out...
This is basically how I feel, what I have decided is this. If come Election Day and I'm still undecided I will go with the in vote as I know what that is like. Whereas I don't know what will definitely happen on the out vote. But I'm hoping that by that time I am decided what to vote.
Like you I've got mates who say out cause of the immigrants etc. But will still go and get their cars cleaned by some Albanian for a £5.
No one is going to ask anyone to leave, I wouldn't have thought.. except illegals. its about the amount of people coming in that needs to be controlled we will have a situation where 75 million Turks will be able to freely settle in this country with a european passport in less than 1 year.. As has been said we simply don't have the infrastructure for more and more people.
Rob, two things. You make some really good points in that post and then spoil it with the BNP bollocks, it sounds like your just putting a flag up, I hate right wing racists too but I equally hate extreme left wing soft arsed do-gooders who make things worse (BCoz I deserves it mate) and my fear is people are leaning towards the right throughout Europe because of the situation with migrants etc.
Also. you wouldn't have that attitude if you were say a 5th generation fisherman who was just trying to feed their family, (and us)
Like you, I would stay if Europe was to become a trading partner only and moved away from federalism.
Nah you are right, I was generalising somewhat to be intentionally crass but I do feel that way a little bit. I agree on the left-wing do-gooders, they seem to live in a fantasy land with some of their wishes (entirely open-door to immigration ffs) but if it's one or the other I must admit my views are more left-leaning than right.
Agreed on the fisherman bit but fact is I'm not, and 99% of us aren't, so that issue doesn't affect the vast majority of us. Not saying it's right of course but this entire debate is about the wider point of view and not the smaller issues.
I'm still undecided, the thing is I think both sides seem to have made very little attempt to sway arguments, and in all honesty the only person I've been impressed with in terms of convincing us is Nigel Farage, even if I don't agree with all of what he says. It's a tricky situation.
If the country decides to stay in then be dictated to from a far, and don't moan or expect any favours,not to mention the herds that will be able to get here through the back door once they get the eu passports elsewhere.
Sorry it really does scare me what the future holds for our kids and there kids.
Don't know whether to laugh or cry at this ffs
Also, would love to know what's wrong with a Muslim being Mayor of London?
You clearly are very short sighted, the guy has already slayed us within 24 hours.So it is acceptable for him to say these things, and us white people sit back and take it.
That is not something i will accept.
and the problem with that is?
off he he goes again, talking uninformed bollocks,i would trust this bloke khan a damnded sight more than his predecessor boris Johnson,ever thought about opening a Bristol branch of the kkk, red robin?, would seem about your level.
Wasn't quoting me, quoting the dumb arsed ones who complain and see this as an Enoch Powell prophesy.
I'm like you I'm very concerned with inviting the Turks who as far as history tells me, they are on Africa's continent not Europe. Are we going to invite others on to our continent or are Brussels moving the plates of the earth without telling us?
We are at breaking point, but some come here adopt our ways and work hard paying into our taxes etc. Some come here and take the piss. I know we've got them already born and bred in this country so that also needs sorting which we are trying. But unfortunately everyone hides behind the human rights law bollocks that is the thing that is swinging me to out.
However my concern is the French if anyone is going to make it difficult then it's them and they basically own our electricity grid and the ****ing Severn bridge. They are already making noises about the Hinkley project.
I believe that we will actually be able to have more of a say in European laws and make them (Eu) have less power by staying in. It'll be an absolute bugger to negotiate with the Eu if we leave and the chances are we'll be worse off as the countries in the Eu will make an example of us if we leave.
And as with the Eu restrictions, on things like fishing it works two ways. It stops us from being dominant whilst also stopping other countries dominating us in our own waters
And as with the Eu restrictions, on things like fishing it works two ways. It stops us from being dominant whilst also stopping other countries dominating us in our own waters
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- SADIQ KHAN: THERE ARE TOO MANY WHITE MEN ON TRANSPORT FOR LONDON
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Sadiq Khan believes TfL is failing to represent Londoners
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By Adam BienkovWednesday, 30 March 2016 11:54 AM 291London's transport authority is far too dominated by white men, Labour's mayoral candidate Sadiq Khan said today.
There are currently 13 white men on the Transport for London board and just three women. Khan said he would ensure the board better reflected the "diversity" of Londoners if he becomes mayor.
"I will reshape TfL's board," he said during a speech in Brixton this morning.
"It needs to better reflect London's diversity in the interest of Londoners. Did you know there are 16 people on the board of TfL?
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"Thirteen of them are white men. Thirteen. Think about it . It only has three women on it. That's less than one in five. "
He suggested the needs of women and ethnic minorities were being neglected as a result.
"Women face specific challenges on our transport network that are not currently being addressed. I was appalled about the recent decision by British transport police to scrap the sexual violence unit. Reports of sexual offences on the London Underground almost tripled over the past five years. As mayor I will take these problems seriously."
Khan today continued to face questions over his policy of freezing transport fares. TfL estimate the policy will cost £1.9 billion over the next five years, when compared to their current business plan which assumes year-on-year fares increases.
Khan has repeatedly rejected TfL's business case assumptions. However, he came under pressure today after it was revealed his own claims about Zac Goldsmith's fares policy is based on the same business plan.
Khan has posted billboards claiming that Goldsmith would raise fares by 17% over the next four years, despite the fact that Goldsmith has not yet made any announcement about raising fares
When asked for the source of the 17% claim, Khan told Politics.co.uk that it was based on accepting the same fare rise and interest rate assumptions contained in the TfL business case which he has previously rejected.
Asked whether he now accepted those assumptions, he replied:
"I don't. He does. So you can't have it both ways. On the one hand you can't attack me because my plans are different to the business plan, because you're accepting the business plan, but then not accept the business plan. So he's accepted all of the business plan in relationship to investment and infrastructure, he's using the business plan to attack me. In which case you've got to accept the figures and those figures are 17% increases in fares over the next four years and he's not denied it."
Khan denied that he was also trying to "have it both ways" by using the business case against Goldsmith and instead called on the Tory candidate to answer whether he accepted TfL's fare rise assumptions
"He's the only mainstream mayoral candidate, and this is the fifth election so far, who has not explained his fares policy going into the election and hopefully your fantastic journalism will get it out of him."
Goldsmith today released his transport manifesto. There are no specific pledges on fare levels within it. However he does promise that he will use new revenues from using underground tunnels to host broadband cables, in order to "bear down on fares".
Politics.co.uk have asked Goldsmith's campaign to comment on Khan's claims that the Tory candidate will raise fares by 17%. We have not yet received a response.
For the life of me I can't understand how anyone can vote for uncontrolled immigration.
I still have friends from my schooldays, 50 years ago, who were sons and daughters of Poles.
Half of Peasedown St John seemed to have a Polish name in the 60's yet they are as English as anyone I know and can't speak a word of Polish.
Today in Shepton Mallet with mass and uncontrolled immigration you really could be in a suburb of Warsaw.
Every other person seemed to be speaking Polish - I think - for sure it wasn't English.
Our country is changing and we have no control with the power in Brussels.
MTG - Negotiate with the EU ???
FFS - wake up or didn't you see what Cameron came back with from his 'negotiations'.
'countries in the Eu will make an example of us if we leave'
The EU, we're now told, would collapse without us.
It's a basket case that will never work which the Euro has proved.
If it were an animal a vet would put it down.
Anyway, I'd be happy to stand up if they want to 'make an example of us'.
You ?
I still have friends from my schooldays, 50 years ago, who were sons and daughters of Poles.
Half of Peasedown St John seemed to have a Polish name in the 60's yet they are as English as anyone I know and can't speak a word of Polish.
Today in Shepton Mallet with mass and uncontrolled immigration you really could be in a suburb of Warsaw.
Every other person seemed to be speaking Polish - I think - for sure it wasn't English.
Our country is changing and we have no control with the power in Brussels.
MTG - Negotiate with the EU ???
FFS - wake up or didn't you see what Cameron came back with from his 'negotiations'.
'countries in the Eu will make an example of us if we leave'
The EU, we're now told, would collapse without us.
It's a basket case that will never work which the Euro has proved.
If it were an animal a vet would put it down.
Anyway, I'd be happy to stand up if they want to 'make an example of us'.
You ?
Redprint
Cameron's negotiations were far from perfect, however if we left what makes you think that we'd get a better deal? Why would they let us have what they have without having to do what they have to do? They would want us to have open borders and to obey Eu laws in order to trade with them still like Norway. Perhaps we may even be worse off.
Perhaps in the Eu we could use our influence by electing some proper MEPS. Niger farage and the ukip lot are a laughing stock in the Eu parliament hence why we don't have as much say as perhaps we could.
Also before you say that we are Britain they need us. Around 10% of Eu imports goes to us and around 45% of our exports got to the Eu. So who really needs who then?
Cameron's negotiations were far from perfect, however if we left what makes you think that we'd get a better deal? Why would they let us have what they have without having to do what they have to do? They would want us to have open borders and to obey Eu laws in order to trade with them still like Norway. Perhaps we may even be worse off.
Perhaps in the Eu we could use our influence by electing some proper MEPS. Niger farage and the ukip lot are a laughing stock in the Eu parliament hence why we don't have as much say as perhaps we could.
Also before you say that we are Britain they need us. Around 10% of Eu imports goes to us and around 45% of our exports got to the Eu. So who really needs who then?
Are you on drugs? We don't go into other countries water to fish they come into ours. It ain't our of the fisherman's fault that the fish happen to be in uk waters.
As to negotiations, you don't know that you are just saying what you believe. Which is only what you've been taught in school set by circulars based on today not the future.
When I made my comment regarding the French I meant the French not the Euro zone.
I'm going to give you an invaluable lesson today.
Not everyone voting out is doing it because they want to send immigration back, a lot of people have put good arguments for in and out. So here's the lesson.
Read what people say, take in what people say. Because who knows they might just know more than you think you do. Weed out the ****e by some and open your mind and be swayed by people's statements. You might not be so argumentative and learn stuff.
It's a lesson that a majority of all of us has gone through especially the married ones. We ain't always correct but then nor is anyone (apart from my wife if she's reading this)
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