Hillsborough verdicts

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C

cidered abroad

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2011
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Zyder Country
A massive cover up by the authorities that we, the people of GB, should be able to trust.

My tears today are just as sad as when I watched it happening on TV all those years ago.

RIP fellow human beings who died because others messed up and did not have the decency to own up.
 
I've never been able to understand this. Please could someone explain to me?

Firstly, wasn't the original problem caused by Liverpool fans trying to force their way into a ground that was already full?
Apparently they have today been vindicated of any blame - therefore presumably had there been no police, ambulance or SWFC club staff around that horrible day and all the fans left to their own devices all those people would be with us now, would they?????????

My understanding (please enlighten me because it is clearly different from the results of the inquiry) was that the cover-up from the authorities - inexcusable though it is - and worthy of condemnation - and punishment - was related to their inadequate reaction to a terrible situation that had been caused by Liverpool fans at the back, forcing their way into a ground that simply didn't have room for them. The police and authorities didn't actually CAUSE the problem did they? - they reacted inadequately to it and then tried to cover up their inadequacies (inexcusable as I stated before).
Some blame must also lie with whoever opened the gates at the back to allow all those pushing, surging Liverpool fans to force their way in - perhaps Sheffield Wednesday FC themselves?

Whoever was pushing and forcing their way through the back gate MUST have blood on their hands surely? How can they be blameless? Were they themselves being somehow 'kettled' into the ground and forced in that way by the authorities? Is that why it's the authorities fault and the fans themselves are blameless?

This isn't a dig at anyone and I am NOT being sarcastic - I just thought I had understood what happened, but after the result today I obviously didn't.......
 
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I agree absolutely, there are no winners in this case and perhaps it comes out of a culture that someone must be blamed when things go wrong. Perhaps the most positive thing which results from disasters like this is that we learn from them and make sure that they will never happen again. My sympathy goes to all concerned: lets hope they can now move on
 
bcfcredandwhite said:
I've never been able to understand this. Please could someone explain to me?

Firstly, wasn't the original problem caused by Liverpool fans trying to force their way into a ground that was already full?
Apparently they have today been vindicated of any blame - therefore presumably had there been no police, ambulance or SWFC club staff around that horrible day and all the fans left to their own devices all those people would be with us now, would they?????????

My understanding (please enlighten me because it is clearly different from the results of the inquiry) was that the cover-up from the authorities - inexcusable though it is - and worthy of condemnation - and punishment - was related to their inadequate reaction to a terrible situation that had been caused by Liverpool fans at the back, forcing their way into a ground that simply didn't have room for them. The police and authorities didn't actually CAUSE the problem did they? - they reacted inadequately to it and then tried to cover up their inadequacies (inexcusable as I stated before).
Some blame must also lie with whoever opened the gates at the back to allow all those pushing, surging Liverpool fans to force their way in - perhaps Sheffield Wednesday FC themselves?

Whoever was pushing and forcing their way through the back gate MUST have blood on their hands surely? How can they be blameless? Were they themselves being somehow 'kettled' into the ground and forced in that way by the authorities? Is that why it's the authorities fault and the fans themselves are blameless?

This isn't a dig at anyone and I am NOT being sarcastic - I just thought I had understood what happened, but after the result today I obviously didn't.......
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Bolded the first bit up there. That's not what they're getting at, so your assumption you've made is incorrect. It's not the Liverpool fans' responsibility to ensure the safety of the wider crowd. What they maen by that is that it wasn't the Liverpool fans' misbehaviour that caused it. At any event, whether it's football or a gig or whatever, it's down to the Policing and stewarding, and that's what they're referring to.
 
Tell me if i'm wrong,but i do believe there were more Liverpool fans trying to get into Hillsborough than tickets allocated to them.Fans without tickets trying to get in.
My eyes saw Liverpool fans pushing against those rear gates that were locked.

People were being crushed on the outside long before they entered the stadium.
The staff at Sheff Weds were dammed if they kept the gates closed, and dammed if they opened them.

Horrible as it was, the fans of Liverpool did not do themselves any favours.
 
BCFCRob said:
Bolded the first bit up there. That's not what they're getting at, so your assumption you've made is incorrect. It's not the Liverpool fans' responsibility to ensure the safety of the wider crowd. What they maen by that is that it wasn't the Liverpool fans' misbehaviour that caused it. At any event, whether it's football or a gig or whatever, it's down to the Policing and stewarding, and that's what they're referring to.
Click to expand...
Sorry Rob, I still don't get it.
So, a crowd of people stampeding is immune from any responsibility for the wellbeing of the people they trample and it's the polices fault for not stopping it?
That doesn't seem right to me. Sorry.
 
bcfcredandwhite said:
Sorry Rob, I still don't get it.
So, a crowd of people stampeding is immune from any responsibility for the wellbeing of the people they trample and it's the polices fault for not stopping it?
That doesn't seem right to me. Sorry.
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I think the problem is that there were too many people in that section because there was no dedicated turnstiles for each pen, there was inadequate signage at the club and misleading information on match tickets. Also they didn't delay the kick off because of the amount of fans outside of the ground and this caused the stampede as it got near to kick off time. Now you may say that the fans takes some blame for this and maybe they do, but if you have a ticket for a FA Cup Semi-Final, do you want to miss any of it? There is always a mad rush before kick off time, whatever game you are watching, which should have been anticipated and it wasn't.
 
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HANDY ANDY said:
I agree absolutely, there are no winners in this case and perhaps it comes out of a culture that someone must be blamed when things go wrong. Perhaps the most positive thing which results from disasters like this is that we learn from them and make sure that they will never happen again. My sympathy goes to all concerned: lets hope they can now move on
Click to expand...

I'll have a pound to a penny you are the type to firstly blame the behaviour of the fans and will have continued to do so until very recently!

Red Robin.. Read the report. You are quite simply incorrect.
 
bcfcredandwhite said:
Sorry Rob, I still don't get it.
So, a crowd of people stampeding is immune from any responsibility for the wellbeing of the people they trample and it's the polices fault for not stopping it?
That doesn't seem right to me. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Bit sensationalist that... hardly a stampede, merely usual crowd pressure, which occurs wherever you go in any heavy crowd, particularly if it's poorly managed.
 
banksyisourhero said:
I'll have a pound to a penny you are the type to firstly blame the behaviour of the fans and will have continued to do so until very recently!

Red Robin.. Read the report. You are quite simply incorrect.
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I don't think I have ever blamed fan behaviour in any of my posts. I have however stated that I believe those fans who extol the virtues of confrontation be it in words or actions will eventually get their wish.
The Hillsborough situation was a disaster waiting to happen and represented the irresistible force meeting the immovable object. Once it had happened everyone looked for someone to blame. The Inquiry has now reached its conclusion and the Sth Yorkshire Police Force must now deal with that verdict. The next stage will be accountability in all its forms which will no doubt further line the legal profession's pockets.
 
Red Robin said:
Tell me if i'm wrong,but i do believe there were more Liverpool fans trying to get into Hillsborough than tickets allocated to them.Fans without tickets trying to get in.
My eyes saw Liverpool fans pushing against those rear gates that were locked.

People were being crushed on the outside long before they entered the stadium.
The staff at Sheff Weds were dammed if they kept the gates closed, and dammed if they opened them.

Horrible as it was, the fans of Liverpool did not do themselves any favours.
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not just wrong but stupid and ignorant, I can understand you not reading the report- very few have, but at least try and get a grounding of the facts, instead of regurgitating some crap you read in the sun.
 
Red Robin said:
Tell me if i'm wrong,but i do believe there were more Liverpool fans trying to get into Hillsborough than tickets allocated to them.Fans without tickets trying to get in.
My eyes saw Liverpool fans pushing against those rear gates that were locked.

People were being crushed on the outside long before they entered the stadium.
The staff at Sheff Weds were dammed if they kept the gates closed, and dammed if they opened them.

Horrible as it was, the fans of Liverpool did not do themselves any favours.
Click to expand...

No. That was myth perpetuated by the Police and Tory media. A myth exposed by the HSE who investigated the disaster and found it to be a lie.
 
Cliftonville said:
No. That was myth perpetuated by the Police and Tory media. A myth exposed by the HSE who investigated the disaster and found it to be a lie.
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I have to admit that I was taken in by it. I had the Heysel disaster in mind when all this was hitting the headlines and thought 'Liverpool fans again'.
I respect the verdict - I'm just surprised by the fan-related bit of it.
Hopefully it'll bring closure to the families anyway.
 
HANDY ANDY said:
I don't think I have ever blamed fan behaviour in any of my posts. I have however stated that I believe those fans who extol the virtues of confrontation be it in words or actions will eventually get their wish.
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And what would there wish be.. explain?
 
Red Robin said:
Tell me if i'm wrong,but i do believe there were more Liverpool fans trying to get into Hillsborough than tickets allocated to them.Fans without tickets trying to get in.
My eyes saw Liverpool fans pushing against those rear gates that were locked.

People were being crushed on the outside long before they entered the stadium.
The staff at Sheff Weds were dammed if they kept the gates closed, and dammed if they opened them.

Horrible as it was, the fans of Liverpool did not do themselves any favours.
Click to expand...
Was you there? Or are you just spouting what the press and police wanted you to believe at the time?
 
Mind the gap! said:
As long as lessons are learnt so that this happens again then there will lie the best outcome from all of this.
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Probably not, because what occurred stretched beyond Hillsborough and involved the Prime Minister and the nature of policing of society. There were also clear cover ups of events during the miners strike and Stonehenge. Thatcher created a environment were elements of society were seen as targets - The enemy within (Thatcher's description of Unions),
 
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