Sheikh: our booty?

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Well obviously mate.

It's virtually every clubs prime revenue stream, and an incremental £40m dropping into the coffers will ensure a profit. They'll then no doubt increase their spending over time to mirror the income, as that's the crazy world of football, but in the short term there's going to be some healthy accounts in the PL next year.

yes and the wise ones will build stadiums and training facilities and work hard to find good players using scouting.

and then the rest will go mad and flush it into agents and players coke habits.

The danger is a setanta type collapse mid contract. If BT or Sky for whatever reasons go oh ****... well those 4/5 year contracts still need to be honoured.

I think it'll be interesting to see if some global disaster or brexit causes this oh **** moment.

I found it slightly interesting sky said bt way over paid for CL.. whats next?

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

If i were bournemouth I'd want eddie howe to buy a couple players and build stadium up to 30k (if the site allows) rather than flush cash on a shane long like southampton did.

Same for stoke.

and same frankly for LFC.. if we are awash with cash why not trust klopp to find good players and not waste money on moneyball edwards crap and get the anfield road end done.

I am worried that FSG have permanently shelved that development after the ticket price stuff

 

[Tobes]

yes and the wise ones will build stadiums and training facilities and work hard to find good players using scouting.

and then the rest will go mad and flush it into agents and players coke habits.

The danger is a setanta type collapse mid contract. If BT or Sky for whatever reasons go oh ****... well those 4/5 year contracts still need to be honoured.

I think it'll be interesting to see if some global disaster or brexit causes this oh **** moment.

I found it slightly interesting sky said bt way over paid for CL.. whats next?

This is true, BUT, BT and Sky are going nowhere.

The danger would be a new kid on the block bidding over the odds next time around. However, once bitten twice shy, would probably ensure that they always choose the safest option - you would like to think.

The problem with sinking the cash into sensible options, is that the rest of the league simply won't, and the danger is you become uncompetitive and fall off the gravy train. This will always ensure that player fee and wage inflation will eat away at the incremental cash ad infinitum - UNLESS the PL install a safeguard FFP agreement like they did 3 years ago - but there's no sign of a replacement to that agreement. So the madness will continue unabated during the next TV contract period.

 

[jenners04]

i agree on the Bournemouth part, they are a very small club in comparison to the usual standard of the prem so need to spend wisely and concentrate on making sure they stay part of the prem for now and if can def expand stadium.

we are slightly dif as we are already a well established club and for years have benefited off the back of our success and global appeal from years ago, going forward should be interesting as we have the type of manager who i hope will say **** off to the next carroll benteke types and bring more players through he can mould how he feels fit.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

This is true, BUT, BT and Sky are going nowhere.

The danger would be a new kid on the block bidding over the odds next time around. However, once bitten twice shy, would probably ensure that they always choose the safest option - you would like to think.

The problem with sinking the cash into sensible options, is that the rest of the league simply won't, and the danger is you become uncompetitive and fall off the gravy train. This will always ensure that player fee and wage inflation will eat away at the incremental cash ad infinitum - UNLESS the PL install a safeguard FFP agreement like they did 3 years ago - but there's no sign of a replacement to that agreement. So the madness will continue unabated during the next TV contract period.

I think yes, they should be solid.

Honestly though... yeah taking the short cut is what a lot do.

If we look at villa, what do we see?

a) owner not interested
b) general incompetance
c) reportedly one of their on book scouts for germany is actually in australia.. shows how badly organised they are

Would you think villa would be doing things right in general. No i think

same as newkie. why are they gash.. years of bad management right up the club.

If you are a well run club.. and there are examples out there... that say ok.. wages will be X but that doesn't mean we need to splash 50mil on a little tosser like sterling. we will invest this money in really good netwroks of scouts and work to build local talent and procure good talent.

Then the question is do you invest 10mil in a risky player or 10 mil in training and development facilities?

A stoke type call... do you look about and see hey this shaqiri lad or this bojan lad.. lets see if we can get these guys on the sly. or say De bruyne when cheslea disposed of him..


I do agree wage and fee inflation will be massive though so it also depends on patience and where you want to be. If there are 8 sides spending madly at the top do you say ok. I'll compete in middle and be building gradually over time or do you say no i need instant success???

Then theres the other sid eof it. do bournemouth NEED a 30k stadium.. is the stadium suiting the fan base? can they fill more seats?

I think theres very little sense applied these days but a good strong long term (10 years+) plan is needed by any serious owner to develop the clubs.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

i agree on the Bournemouth part, they are a very small club in comparison to the usual standard of the prem so need to spend wisely and concentrate on making sure they stay part of the prem for now and if can def expand stadium.

we are slightly dif as we are already a well established club and for years have benefited off the back of our success and global appeal from years ago, going forward should be interesting as we have the type of manager who i hope will say **** off to the next carroll benteke types and bring more players through he can mould how he feels fit.

For us yes we have some things going for us but I'd like ot see FSG not making do and instead appoint a genuine CEO of repute not mike gordon and then have a clealr plan for next 10 years that aims at development irrespective of who the manager is.

I am going to enjoy klopp but there will come a day when he leaves. hopefully by his own decision after much success but he will go... and if fsg have not developed the club they will be right back to ermmmm.... what do we do now stuff.

 

[Tobes]

I think yes, they should be solid.

Honestly though... yeah taking the short cut is what a lot do.

If we look at villa, what do we see?

a) owner not interested
b) general incompetance
c) reportedly one of their on book scouts for germany is actually in australia.. shows how badly organised they are

Would you think villa would be doing things right in general. No i think

same as newkie. why are they gash.. years of bad management right up the club.

If you are a well run club.. and there are examples out there... that say ok.. wages will be X but that doesn't mean we need to splash 50mil on a little tosser like sterling. we will invest this money in really good netwroks of scouts and work to build local talent and procure good talent.

Then the question is do you invest 10mil in a risky player or 10 mil in training and development facilities?

A stoke type call... do you look about and see hey this shaqiri lad or this bojan lad.. lets see if we can get these guys on the sly. or say De bruyne when cheslea disposed of him..


I do agree wage and fee inflation will be massive though so it also depends on patience and where you want to be. If there are 8 sides spending madly at the top do you say ok. I'll compete in middle and be building gradually over time or do you say no i need instant success???

Then theres the other sid eof it. do bournemouth NEED a 30k stadium.. is the stadium suiting the fan base? can they fill more seats?

I think theres very little sense applied these days but a good strong long term (10 years+) plan is needed by any serious owner to develop the clubs.

Newcastle have spent £70m on players this season, and are likely to go down.

Villa have spent more on players in the last 5 years than we have...

The problem with football as opposed to any other business, is that you're making multi million pound capital investments in intangible assets, who's value (both in real terms and in football terms) is incredibly subjective.

It all boils down to the ability of those orchestrating the player purchases ultimately.

So can you blame Ashley and Lerner for their clubs demise? You could say they entrusted the wrong people to make the decisions, but they did so in good faith. They've been the victims of piss poor player investments. As have FSG in the Rodgers / committee era.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

Newcastle have spent £70m on players this season, and are likely to go down.

Villa have spent more on players in the last 5 years than we have...

The problem with football as opposed to any other business, is that you're making multi million pound capital investments in intangible assets, who's value (both in real terms and in football terms) is incredibly subjective.

It all boils down to the ability of those orchestrating the player purchases ultimately.

So can you blame Ashley and Lerner for their clubs demise? You could say they entrusted the wrong people to make the decisions, but they did so in good faith. They've been the victims of piss poor player investments. As have FSG in the Rodgers / committee era.

I'd agree with that.

 

[astro]

Newcastle have spent £70m on players this season, and are likely to go down.

Villa have spent more on players in the last 5 years than we have...

The problem with football as opposed to any other business, is that you're making multi million pound capital investments in intangible assets, who's value (both in real terms and in football terms) is incredibly subjective.

It all boils down to the ability of those orchestrating the player purchases ultimately.

So can you blame Ashley and Lerner for their clubs demise? You could say they entrusted the wrong people to make the decisions, but they did so in good faith. They've been the victims of piss poor player investments. As have FSG in the Rodgers / committee era.

Plus the post-Moyes Everton who have pissed a lot of money up the wall to fall backwards a lot, including a record fee for someone now second choice to "the worst player in ligue 1"

 

[Tobes]

Plus the post-Moyes Everton who have pissed a lot of money up the wall to fall backwards a lot, including a record fee for someone now second choice to "the worst player in ligue 1"

Crap investment him like, I mean we'll only double our money on him come the summer, what a shocking buy.....

Thanks for virtually guaranteeing that he'll bag one tonight with your [HASHTAG]#jinx[/HASHTAG] btw.

 

[astro]

Crap investment him like, I mean we'll only double our money on him come the summer, what a shocking buy.....

Thanks for virtually guaranteeing that he'll bag one tonight with your [HASHTAG]#jinx[/HASHTAG] btw.

Why would I be scared of a Lukaku goal? [HASHTAG]#doingalukaku[/HASHTAG]

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

Newcastle have spent £70m on players this season, and are likely to go down.

Villa have spent more on players in the last 5 years than we have...

The problem with football as opposed to any other business, is that you're making multi million pound capital investments in intangible assets, who's value (both in real terms and in football terms) is incredibly subjective.

It all boils down to the ability of those orchestrating the player purchases ultimately.

So can you blame Ashley and Lerner for their clubs demise? You could say they entrusted the wrong people to make the decisions, but they did so in good faith. They've been the victims of piss poor player investments. As have FSG in the Rodgers / committee era.

I would blame them honestly.. I would not with hundreds of millions of pounds at stake take the attitude that i have the "trust" and act for "good faith"

I feel as though guys have "made do" for quite a while and what happened to villa has been coming for a long time. same for newcastle. anyone can make a mistake but when ashely has put in leading lights like kinnear and continued on form there its only going to go one way.

The sotries coming out of villa about gross incompetence and a scouting network that anyone with a copy of FM2015 could beat? well......

Yes its incredibly subjective so you need the very best you can get using their good judgment to pick players and devleop players all through and the long term thinking to make it happen.

Frankly as i said FSG were on the same road with rogers and the committee. My signature for 12 months was its only going to end one way... thankfully they eventually got shut (12 months last in my view)

I'd blame these guys to putting no plan in place, no organisation and hoping guys hired in as manager could figure it out.

Proper football clubs need football men at board level developing and working long term plans for the good of the club.


My ideal club is bayern, but it is rather easy for them as german league is a gimmie. They have the structure and long term plans and organisation and keep the moeny. but they have a near unassailable position. It would take horrendous bad decision making from them to end up not winning german league for say 3 years running.

Another example might have been southampton but i feel the owner there hasn't cared as much as needed and the great work down there was done i nthe past and they are living off it.

Other really well run clubs.. championship level. Ipswich, derby, middlesboro. Not a lot of cash about but they are consistent in what they are doing. I don't know enough about brighton.

In the premier league stoke seem quite well run at the top but i'm not sure its not hughes quite a bit rahter than the whole.

 

[Tobes]

I would blame them honestly.. I would not with hundreds of millions of pounds at stake take the attitude that i have the "trust" and act for "good faith"

I feel as though guys have "made do" for quite a while and what happened to villa has been coming for a long time. same for newcastle. anyone can make a mistake but when ashely has put in leading lights like kinnear and continued on form there its only going to go one way.

The sotries coming out of villa about gross incompetence and a scouting network that anyone with a copy of FM2015 could beat? well......

Yes its incredibly subjective so you need the very best you can get using their good judgment to pick players and devleop players all through and the long term thinking to make it happen.

Frankly as i said FSG were on the same road with rogers and the committee. My signature for 12 months was its only going to end one way... thankfully they eventually got shut (12 months last in my view)

I'd blame these guys to putting no plan in place, no organisation and hoping guys hired in as manager could figure it out.

Proper football clubs need football men at board level developing and working long term plans for the good of the club.


My ideal club is bayern, but it is rather easy for them as german league is a gimmie. They have the structure and long term plans and organisation and keep the moeny. but they have a near unassailable position. It would take horrendous bad decision making from them to end up not winning german league for say 3 years running.

Another example might have been southampton but i feel the owner there hasn't cared as much as needed and the great work down there was done i nthe past and they are living off it.

Other really well run clubs.. championship level. Ipswich, derby, middlesboro. Not a lot of cash about but they are consistent in what they are doing. I don't know enough about brighton.

In the premier league stoke seem quite well run at the top but i'm not sure its not hughes quite a bit rahter than the whole.

They have to trust and invest their cash in good faith, as they're not football experts.

They employ people to scout, attract and buy players. They therefore entrust them to make sound judgements.

What you're saying there is that they shouldn't trust them, therefore by definition they'd be undermining them and in essence making those football decisions themselves.

At Newcastle they've entrusted Carr (Alan's dad) to buy their players. It worked well for them in previous years, but of late he's largely bought a load of old ****. He's therefore made some poor decisions, but after previous successes why wouldn't Ashley trust him?

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

They have to trust and invest their cash in good faith, as they're not football experts.

They employ people to scout, attract and buy players. They therefore entrust them to make sound judgements.

What you're saying there is that they shouldn't trust them, therefore by definition they'd be undermining them and in essence making those football decisions themselves.

At Newcastle they've entrusted Carr (Alan's dad) to buy their players. It worked well for them in previous years, but of late he's largely bought a load of old ****. He's therefore made some poor decisions, but after previous successes why wouldn't Ashley trust him?

well... ok but nobody forced them to buy a football club did they?

I'm not saying they should not turst anyone but the clubs in the example have half arsed it and done just enough to get by and also have been absentee types

If you have no long term plan or clear structure and systems to say hey CEO did you knwo the scout in spain was a spotty arsed kid then... well when a **** player form spain is bought....

You need a good group working together in a clear structure to have success.. you can't have the **** going on at villa or newcastle or (i hope) in the past at LFC and expect success.

More than anything you need reliable EYES not computer programs to say ok.. here's this player, whats his attitude look like really? thats where real scouts are needed and by the look of it these clubs have been relying on agents telling them not their own eyes who are interested in the club not a quick buck

that my view anyway.

YOu need really good experienced guys and if that means you've only got a really good scout in say.... UK fine.. if you want to buy in france then employ a really sound guy in france you think shares your ethos and is not in an agents pocket... and yeah ok owners can't do this but they employ the guys to set up the structure and manage it.

 

[Tobes]

well... ok but nobody forced them to buy a football club did they?

I'm not saying they should not turst anyone but the clubs in the example have half arsed it and done just enough to get by and also have been absentee types

If you have no long term plan or clear structure and systems to say hey CEO did you knwo the scout in spain was a spotty arsed kid then... well when a **** player form spain is bought....

You need a good group working together in a clear structure to have success.. you can't have the **** going on at villa or newcastle or (i hope) in the past at LFC and expect success.

More than anything you need reliable EYES not computer programs to say ok.. here's this player, whats his attitude look like really? thats where real scouts are needed and by the look of it these clubs have been relying on agents telling them not their own eyes who are interested in the club not a quick buck

that my view anyway.

YOu need really good experienced guys and if that means you've only got a really good scout in say.... UK fine.. if you want to buy in france then employ a really sound guy in france you think shares your ethos and is not in an agents pocket... and yeah ok owners can't do this but they employ the guys to set up the structure and manage it.

What you're describing their is a football manager mate.

The modern penchant for FM inspired stat merchants who rate players in binary is largely to blame for the current failure of many clubs transfer policies

The old skool way of the manager using his scouts to select the players that might fit the bill, him then personally checking them out in the flesh - and finally - and arguably most importantly - speaking to the player himself to gauge his attitude and how he might fit into the dressing room dynamic....has been lost in a wave of spreadsheets and maths students crunching data to create ability tables.

It leads to putting together groups of players without the necessary balance needed to create a truly solid and committed team.

We used to call Moyes dithering Davie as he took an age to decide on a player, BUT, he was as concerned about the background checks around their character as he was their ability. He was great at forming a genuine team spirit and on the rare occasion he backed the wrong horse, he got rid quick.

I think you need football people - ex pro's and seasoned football professionals making the key decisions, and not bean counters and statisticians

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

What you're describing their is a football manager mate.

The modern penchant for FM inspired stat merchants who rate players in binary is largely to blame for the current failure of many clubs transfer policies

The old skool way of the manager using his scouts to select the players that might fit the bill, him then personally checking them out in the flesh - and finally - and arguably most importantly - speaking to the player himself to gauge his attitude and how he might fit into the dressing room dynamic....has been lost in a wave of spreadsheets and maths students crunching data to create ability tables.

It leads to putting together groups of players without the necessary balance needed to create a truly solid and committed team.

We used to call Moyes dithering Davie as he took an age to decide on a player, BUT, he was as concerned about the background checks around their character as he was their ability. He was great at forming a genuine team spirit and on the rare occasion he backed the wrong horse, he got rid quick.

I think you need football people - ex pro's and seasoned football professionals making the key decisions, and not bean counters and statisticians

Well... yes and no. Yes you are right I suppose it is "old school" .

but no. I would be saying an owner can't be an absentee landlord. He must run his business or don't get into business. You need the whole structure set up and have oversight over it.

MY view is theres things no DVD can show you on a player. SO yes a manager, or a scout have to go watch a guy, be it in training, or in warm ups before game, how he conducts himself, how does he interact with his team mates etc... our michael edwards can run his little excel file and say balotelli si worth 16mil or downing 20 but alli not worth 5 and thats all fine but it told him nothing about the player.

You are right that Moyes did it.. the problem was when he went you were oh... well what do we do now? thats where the long term plans and upper management strucutre must take care of this and support whoever the manager is... not like LFC tell him who to buy... joe cole etc etc...

I think yes explayers etc are needed you are dead right. this is how a bayern is structured. You have this thing in england where explayers are considered threats to a manager but in europe if an explayer is not a pro coach he can still be a upper management body who understands the game but will never ever be manager. We have rush, dalglish, fowler all about the place but being ambassadors and only dalglish is on the board.

My central point is owners have the build the club structures to foster this genuine football knowledge. if they are know nothings they are better off not buying in. if you foster the organisation then this "i can run a software and tell you 20 players to buy" stuff goes out the window.

 

[Red Hadron Collider]

What you're describing their is a football manager mate.

The modern penchant for FM inspired stat merchants who rate players in binary is largely to blame for the current failure of many clubs transfer policies

The old skool way of the manager using his scouts to select the players that might fit the bill, him then personally checking them out in the flesh - and finally - and arguably most importantly - speaking to the player himself to gauge his attitude and how he might fit into the dressing room dynamic....has been lost in a wave of spreadsheets and maths students crunching data to create ability tables.

It leads to putting together groups of players without the necessary balance needed to create a truly solid and committed team.

We used to call Moyes dithering Davie as he took an age to decide on a player, BUT, he was as concerned about the background checks around their character as he was their ability. He was great at forming a genuine team spirit and on the rare occasion he backed the wrong horse, he got rid quick.

I think you need football people - ex pro's and seasoned football professionals making the key decisions, and not bean counters and statisticians

I honestly believe Klopp fits this profile

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

yes maybe so.

and when he goes?

in 7 years with lots of trophies i hope..

but he will go.

We need to build the structures...

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

It's very simple - you need a combination of both old school methods combined with data analysis.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

I'm surprised Mr. Khalifa hasn't squished the rumours yet.