Off Topic The Legacy of the Whore

[Garlic Klopp]

There are certain industries any country that considers itself a major economic player needs and steel is one of them. Chinese steel may be cheap, but what is the quality like? A lot of their buildings/bridges, etc do seem to have a nasty habit of collapsing. Indian steel is not much better.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I agree.

Steel for building ships, skyscrapers, football stands, bridges and just about anything.

same for power and energy generation. It doesn't matter it its coal, gas, oil, nuclear, wind or tidal... you have to be self sufficient and then an exporter.

Same for computers... yanks have ut their entire systems in the hands of chinese manufacturing... they are nuts.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

The problem with neo-liberal economics is accountants. It's all about squeezing as much yield from tomorrow's assets, but having the money - for some - now. Friedman and Hayek screw our children worse than Saville ever did.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

There is no doubt that the UK steel industry was in decline over decades and that this didn't just happen now or the last few years. There is no way an economy like the uk's can compete with likes of China and India in this type of industry. The simple equation of cheap labour was obvious.

The problem with Thatcher wasn't privatisation, that was actually a smart move and helped the economy reform.

The problem was with her taxation policies that promoted the fallacy of "trickle down" economics.

Privatising industries that were losing the tax payers huge amounts of money was actually quite smart. Sucks if that was what you were trained to do and was your job... But good for everyone else.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Healthcare. Transportation (yes I know she sold that off too... That was wrong). Security. Infrastructure. Energy.

Those are what I consider core industries. Industries that government should be involved in because it benefits the public as a whole in a way that privatising and smaller entities can't.


Mining. Manufacturing. Steelworks. Etc.
Better off privatised.

 

[carlthejackal]

Heath care. Transportation (yes I know she sold that off too... That was wrong). Security. Infrastructure. Energy.

Those are what I consider core industries. Industries that government should be involved in because it benefits the public as a whole in a way that privatising and smaller entities can't.


Mining. Manufacturing. Steelworks. Etc.
Better off privatised.

These are the industries that Thatcher and the right believe should be in private hands. I don't think there is anything apart from our defence that they think should not be in the private sector. Border force and HMRC are just 2 potential examples

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

Thatcher's government carefully discussed the "managed decline of Liverpool", today's Tories are implementing the plan by not including the city as part of the HS2 network, the local docks and automotive industries(amongst others)will suffer as a result, within the next 50/100 years Liverpool and the north as a whole will be part of a Greater Manchester region if this governments plans come to fruition.
Thank **** I won't be around to see it should it transpire.

 

[Garlic Klopp]

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[Ivan Dobsky]

The problem with Thatcher wasn't privatisation, that was actually a smart move and helped the economy reform.

The problem was with her taxation policies that promoted the fallacy of "trickle down" economics.

Privatising industries that were losing the tax payers huge amounts of money was actually quite smart. Sucks if that was what you were trained to do and was your job... But good for everyone else.

That is so lazy, ignorant and utterly self-serving. Gas, Telecoms, Water and Building Societies were NOT losing money when they became the first parts of the public/non-profit making sector to be privatised. In fact, the reason Thatcher steered cleared of the railways and health was that she knew they couldn't make profit without subsidies. Major took care of that (in the guise of outsourcing and trusts in health) after he was re-elected in '92. The result, on rail anyway, is that you're now paying nearly three times as much in the overall subsidy, even accounting for inflation, per passenger mile travelled. And a huge percentage of that subsidy ends up in the trouser pockets of shareholders and directors of the rail franchises.

Do some ****ing research before coming out with cack like that.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

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He don't care - like all Tories and revolving door senior civil servants, he's undoubtedly on a future backhander to become their 'consultant' or 'advisor', or some such highly paid sinecure, when he retires to the House of Lords at some stage in the future.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

These are the industries that Thatcher and the right believe should be in private hands. I don't think there is anything apart from our defence that they think should not be in the private sector. Border force and HMRC are just 2 potential examples

And the monarchy, sadly, as that's one privatisation I would support.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

If you have a natural resource then exporting said resource makes wealth.

as the quote went about god laying iron and coal up and down this island... well leaving it there to buy someone else's is silly.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I think

a) privatisation is bad

b) unions are terrible scum these days

why? unions where workers are acting out of pure greed is not the same reason as why unions were formed to stop exploitation and not even getting remotely a fair deal

the unions kill industry as sure as any action by tories privatizing and selling off crown jewels

The wanton greed and pigs in troughs actions of modern day unions is as bad as watching top end guys creaming off the top and living like lords for me... why cos they are all in it together and all tolerate each other no matter what is claimed by labour politicians etc.

once the union rep can play one group off against another for so called "equal terms" such that you cannot even change a train timetable to improve customer service then the guy at the top says fair enough i'll just reward myself with a vast bonus and its the public that suffers.

theres no such thing as true socialism in 1st world countries any more.

 

[Milk not bear jizz]

Do some ****ing research before coming out with cack like that.

If they were long term profitable they wouldn't have sunk. Simple-as. Frequently government "costs" arnt very apparent. It's a bad idea for the public to support unprofitable industries (unless there is a hard to quantify benefit... Such as with transportation. A good transportation network will increase value of all other industries in an area.

Being sentimental about "good old days" when the British population worked for low educated low wage jobs in primary industry instead of higher wage/educated jobs secondary or service industries doesn't help the British population.

 

[Tobes]

If they were long term profitable they wouldn't have sunk. Simple-as. Frequently government "costs" arnt very apparent. It's a bad idea for the public to support unprofitable industries (unless there is a hard to quantify benefit... Such as with transportation. A good transportation network will increase value of all other industries in an area.

Being sentimental about "good old days" when the British population worked for low educated low wage jobs in primary industry instead of higher wage/educated jobs secondary or service industries doesn't help the British population.

You ignore the short term capital gain to the treasury by selling off the countries assets, which suited their short term political needs.

You've also ignored the fact that privatisation cost jobs, and the net cost to the economy of those lost jobs compared to the subsidies were brushed under the Tory rug.

As was the likes of Dennis Thatcher (amongst numerous other Tory cocks) filling his boots during the sell off.

The Tory myth was always that you can't drive efficiencies (and thus consumer value) within public owned utilities. You can, it just needs private sector strategies and experience to deliver it.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

the only reason they didn't bother is down to labour union flunkies filling people's heads with ****e... unions were the premise on which the tories excused their rampant sell offs.

 

[Tobes]

Thatcher's government carefully discussed the "managed decline of Liverpool", today's Tories are implementing the plan by not including the city as part of the HS2 network, the local docks and automotive industries(amongst others)will suffer as a result, within the next 50/100 years Liverpool and the north as a whole will be part of a Greater Manchester region if this governments plans come to fruition.
Thank **** I won't be around to see it should it transpire.

HS3 is a massive white elephant, so I shouldn't worry about it. It'll make no discernible difference to the region.

As is the 'Northern Powerhouse' bullshit.

http://www.iea.org.uk/in-the-media/...ick-and-will-do-little-to-reduce-travel-times

 

[Tobes]

the only reason they didn't bother is down to labour union flunkies filling people's heads with ****e... unions were the premise on which the tories excused their rampant sell offs.

The Tories wanted to crush the Unions.

They did so by decimating British manufacturing industry....sounds fair...

They needed reeling in and given a dose of reality, but the Thatcher lead attack on the Unions was bile filled and vitriolic

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

The Tories wanted to crush the Unions.

They did so by decimating British manufacturing industry....sounds fair...

They needed reeling in and given a dose of reality, but the Thatcher lead attack on the Unions was bile filled and vitriolic

yes it was just a premise but one created by greed on all sides

Modern unions today are a total scandal compared to their founders. the greed shown by many unions is obscene. Just a different form of obscene compared to rich banker oligarchs.

 

[Tobes]

yes it was just a premise but one created by greed on all sides

Modern unions today are a total scandal compared to their founders. the greed shown by many unions is obscene. Just a different form of obscene compared to rich banker oligarchs.

Modern Unions are virtually powerless due to legislation.

The pendulum with regards to fairness in the workplace has swung waaaayyyy too far the other way since the dark days of the 70's.

Now we have the likes of zero hours contracts and millions for whom an annual pay review is something that died in 2008.

The middle band of our society has been squeezed hard in the last 20 years whilst those at the top and the bottom felt less of the pinch.

The Tories are now setting about ensuring that the bottom get a good kicking as well.

Meanwhile......the 1% continue to grow richer by the day.