Off Topic Political Debate

[Toby]

Yes it would appear that in the non-English areas of the UK there is a wish to remain in the EU, mainly due to the EU investment in those areas. Should we pull out I would expect a deal to be done to guarantee the current projects are fully funded by the UK and X amount of future investment. This wouldn't be an issue to fund as we pay far more to the EU than we get back.

Not really.

In the case of Scotland they simply cannot afford to go at it alone with the current oil situation, there bid for independence relied heavily on a stable oil market with high prices which is the total opposite of what we currently have. The economics of a Scottish exit don't work anymore unless there is a serious shift in the global oil situation.

As for the youth wanting to stay, I'd consider myself part of the youth and there is a mixture of feeling about the EU though I agree there is a slant towards remaining in the EU. This is mainly because people think it's the left wing position to stay in and a right wing position to leave and the youth of today are more left leaning. When they all realise Corbyn wants to pull out we might see a shift in thinking

Stats proving that today's youth are more left-leaning? Corbyn doesn't want to pull out of Europe, you're just making stuff up. The youth of today want a fundamental change in how the world works, after being saddled with huge Uni debts, no home-owning prospects and lots of old people threatening to ruin the economy because of some weird xenophobic agenda.

In terms of why we are the 5th/6th largest economy, no it isn't because of the EU, prior to the EU we were still one of the largest economies in the world. Though yes we do a lot of trade with the EU, in fact if we left we would be the EUs single largest trade partner. It would be madness to put up barriers to trade, particularly given the very fragile state of the eurozone economies. A deal would be done that ensures the level of trade remains the same or as close to the same as possible. It's in everyone's best interest. Large businesses are already preparing for the situation, the merger talks announcement of the LSE and Deutsche Borse shows that businesses will take steps to keep there operations running as normal.

I'm not suggesting we don't need the EU trade, it's in our interest and there's for trade to continue as normal but we are currently in a great position to negotiate that deal given the unstable situation in Europe.

The eurozone economies are doing fine. I've lived a fair chunk of my life in France and trust me, the French are vindictive. Brexit = gambling on our futures to appease the right-wing loonies this country seems to be full of. Any fall of the £, as is happening at the moment, costs us an absolute fortune in debt repayments. If we do leave we will be in the same situation as Norway, as has been previously mentioned on this thread, there is no benefit in leaving.

 

[superhorns]

You cant say any of this with certainty...... This is the whole problem with BREXPERTS... it is all supposition.

The problem with the 'remain' camp is that they cannot tell with certainty what life would be like if we stay in with the eurocrats determination to create a superstate.

One certainty is we are not voting to keep the status quo, we are going into uncertain times within the EU.

 

[Toby]

The problem with the 'remain' camp is that they cannot tell with certainty what life would be like if we stay in with the eurocrats determination to create a superstate.

One certainty is we are not voting to keep the status quo, we are going into uncertain times within the EU.

That's just not true.

Who's fearmongering now?

Or give some evidence towards it?

superhorns view on Europe: 'They're useless, can't organise anything and never agree on getting anything done, but they're DEFINITELY going to turn into one huge country'.

 

[afcftw]

Not really.



Stats proving that today's youth are more left-leaning? Corbyn doesn't want to pull out of Europe, you're just making stuff up. The youth of today want a fundamental change in how the world works, after being saddled with huge Uni debts, no home-owning prospects and lots of old people threatening to ruin the economy because of some weird xenophobic agenda.



The eurozone economies are doing fine. I've lived a fair chunk of my life in France and trust me, the French are vindictive. Brexit = gambling on our futures to appease the right-wing loonies this country seems to be full of. Any fall of the £, as is happening at the moment, costs us an absolute fortune in debt repayments. If we do leave we will be in the same situation as Norway, as has been previously mentioned on this thread, there is no benefit in leaving.

@paragraph 1 - in 2013 we paid approximately 17billion into the EU and received 6billion in direct funding. I'd call an 11billion difference paying in far more than we directly take out. The figures are widely available online.

@paragraph 2 - I don't have stats to back up youth being more left leaning, only my own experience as a young person, though I live in London which is more left leaning anyway.

Corbyn is well known to be a eurosceptic, I'm not making anything up, go do some research.

I'm a young person who went to Uni and is a property owner and most of my hard working friends also have property, though I completely appreciate the point RE the youth and the feeling of being saddled with the previous generations mistakes and a feeling that we won't have the same opportunities as our parents, I don't expect to have any kind of state pension for example.

The idea that pulling out of the EU would ruin the economy is scare mongering and saying it's because of a xenophobic agenda is narrow minded and totally ignores all of the arguments for pulling out.

@paragraph 3 - the eurozone economies aren't doing just fine, again you need to go and do some research, the latest measures announced by the ECB show just what a fragile state the EU economy is in.

We wouldn't be in the same position as Norway, that's total rubbish.

 

[colognehornet]

Yes it would appear that in the non-English areas of the UK there is a wish to remain in the EU, mainly due to the EU investment in those areas. Should we pull out I would expect a deal to be done to guarantee the current projects are fully funded by the UK and X amount of future investment. This wouldn't be an issue to fund as we pay far more to the EU than we get back.

In the case of Scotland they simply cannot afford to go at it alone with the current oil situation, there bid for independence relied heavily on a stable oil market with high prices which is the total opposite of what we currently have. The economics of a Scottish exit don't work anymore unless there is a serious shift in the global oil situation.

As for the youth wanting to stay, I'd consider myself part of the youth and there is a mixture of feeling about the EU though I agree there is a slant towards remaining in the EU. This is mainly because people think it's the left wing position to stay in and a right wing position to leave and the youth of today are more left leaning. When they all realise Corbyn wants to pull out we might see a shift in thinking

In terms of why we are the 5th/6th largest economy, no it isn't because of the EU, prior to the EU we were still one of the largest economies in the world. Though yes we do a lot of trade with the EU, in fact if we left we would be the EUs single largest trade partner. It would be madness to put up barriers to trade, particularly given the very fragile state of the eurozone economies. A deal would be done that ensures the level of trade remains the same or as close to the same as possible. It's in everyone's best interest. Large businesses are already preparing for the situation, the merger talks announcement of the LSE and Deutsche Borse shows that businesses will take steps to keep there operations running as normal.

I'm not suggesting we don't need the EU trade, it's in our interest and there's for trade to continue as normal but we are currently in a great position to negotiate that deal given the unstable situation in Europe.

I think it's unfair to say that Britain was already the 5th/6th biggest economy before the EU. When Britain joined there was not that much competition e.g. from China, Japan, South Korea and so to still be in the same position now represents a rise in status. Also, the implication is there that without the EU. Britain would be free to negotiate deals outside of it - but Britain is already in that position, just like every other nation. From turnover (Exports and imports) Germany's main partners are the USA, followed by France, the Netherlands, China and the UK. (in 5th place) - Germany's production being fueled by (mostly) Russian oil. This tells us several things, firstly that Germany deals equally freely outside of the EU. secondly that they were fully prepared to go through a Russian embargo (despite the groans of Daimler, Siemens etc.), and thirdly that Britain is not as important to Germany as some on here appear to assume. Britain is a 'payer in', and that would be missed for sure - but Britain is only on third place in this respect, despite its economy. The main reason why Germans mostly want Britain to stay in are emotional - ie. that the EU. would not have come into existence without the historical role played by Britain, and because many Germans feel uncomfortable about their country assuming a leading role and want to ensure a balance to it.

 

[Jsybarry]

The ECB has just used the last desperate surprise 'kitchen sink' package of cutting interest rates to zero and expands QE. The markets were not impressed.

Why should the England & Wales Cricket Board have an opinion on this?

 

[superhorns]

Not really.



Stats proving that today's youth are more left-leaning? Corbyn doesn't want to pull out of Europe, you're just making stuff up. The youth of today want a fundamental change in how the world works, after being saddled with huge Uni debts, no home-owning prospects and lots of old people threatening to ruin the economy because of some weird xenophobic agenda.



The eurozone economies are doing fine. I've lived a fair chunk of my life in France and trust me, the French are vindictive. Brexit = gambling on our futures to appease the right-wing loonies this country seems to be full of. Any fall of the £, as is happening at the moment, costs us an absolute fortune in debt repayments. If we do leave we will be in the same situation as Norway, as has been previously mentioned on this thread, there is no benefit in leaving.

What a ridicules statement to say the eurozone economies are doing fine. They are almost in deflation, unemployment is horrific and people are starving in Greece. The far right wings in most euro counties are thriving, inhabitants in Southern countries express their hate for the dominating northern core.

In contrast the UK has the best growth and investment in Europe and the lowest unemployment rate.

 

[superhorns]

Why should the England & Wales Cricket Board have an opinion on this?

Because we have the best team in Europe

 

[Toby]

@paragraph 1 - in 2013 we paid approximately 17billion into the EU and received 6billion in direct funding. I'd call an 11billion difference paying in far more than we directly take out. The figures are widely available online.

@paragraph 2 - I don't have stats to back up youth being more left leaning, only my own experience as a young person, though I live in London which is more left leaning anyway.

Corbyn is well known to be a eurosceptic, I'm not making anything up, go do some research.

I'm a young person who went to Uni and is a property owner and most of my hard working friends also have property, though I completely appreciate the point RE the youth and the feeling of being saddled with the previous generations mistakes and a feeling that we won't have the same opportunities as our parents, I don't expect to have any kind of state pension for example.

The idea that pulling out of the EU would ruin the economy is scare mongering and saying it's because of a xenophobic agenda is narrow minded and totally ignores all of the arguments for pulling out.

@paragraph 3 - the eurozone economies aren't doing just fine, again you need to go and do some research, the latest measures announced by the ECB show just what a fragile state the EU economy is in.

We wouldn't be in the same position as Norway, that's total rubbish.

You randomly chose one year to back up your claim, over time it's not that bad. We also make a lot of money from being part of the EU, as many economists have said.

I'm a young person living in London, you claimed something and have no stats to back it up. You also said Corbyn wants to pull out of Europe, which is VERY different to being Eurosceptic. I don't think the youth of today is any more left-leaning than it was in the past, but the stats don't exist to prove the point either way.

I've done my research, and the big EU economies are doing just fine. The southern ones aren't doing as well as pre-2008, but they're not only just clinging on thanks to trading with us. We would have to sign a deal to trade with the EU like Norway has, we'd still have free movement of people, have to contribute to the EU budget but have no say in any decision-making.

 

[afcftw]

I think it's unfair to say that Britain was already the 5th/6th biggest economy before the EU. When Britain joined there was not that much competition e.g. from China, Japan, South Korea and so to still be in the same position now represents a rise in status. Also, the implication is there that without the EU. Britain would be free to negotiate deals outside of it - but Britain is already in that position, just like every other nation. From turnover (Exports and imports) Germany's main partners are the USA, followed by France, the Netherlands, China and the UK. (in 5th place) - Germany's production being fueled by (mostly) Russian oil. This tells us several things, firstly that Germany deals equally freely outside of the EU. secondly that they were fully prepared to go through a Russian embargo (despite the groans of Daimler, Siemens etc.), and thirdly that Britain is not as important to Germany as some on here appear to assume. Britain is a 'payer in', and that would be missed for sure - but Britain is only on third place in this respect, despite its economy. The main reason why Germans mostly want Britain to stay in are emotional - ie. that the EU. would not have come into existence without the historical role played by Britain, and because many Germans feel uncomfortable about their country assuming a leading role and want to ensure a balance to it.

We cannot freely trade outside of the EU, that's simply incorrect, being a member of the EU puts up all sorts of barriers to entry for trading outside of the EU. That doesn't mean we can't trade with other countries, but it does mean we cannot pursue our own free trade agreements and are limited by EU customs law.

As for our importance to Germany you only need to look as far as the car industry to see the level of damage that could be done if they limit trade with us. Also as I pointed out the LSE and Deutsche Borse announcing merger talks in the lead up to the referendum was a clear sign that big business will find a way to continue business as normal regardless of the referendum result.

There are 3 main payers in, one leaving would add a huge burden to the other two or result in lots of the smaller countries having larger payments to make which would have a larger effect on there smaller economies.

 

[Toby]

What a ridicules statement to say the eurozone economies are doing fine. They are almost in deflation, unemployment is horrific and people are starving in Greece. The far right wings in most euro counties are thriving, inhabitants in Southern countries express their hate for the dominating northern core.

In contrast the UK has the best growth and investment in Europe and the lowest unemployment rate.

Zero-hour contracts hiding how badly our economy is doing you mean? Osbourne getting people to register as self-employed to claim loads of tax-credits to improve the stats?

Apart from London most of the UK is a mess, with high unemployment, food banks on the rise and no prospects for the next generations. And a few old codgers want to risk it all just to 'see how it goes'.

The main EU economies are doing fine. You keep on contradicting yourself all over the place. I thought Germany was becoming too powerful and making all the decisions in the EU? Are they not doing fine?

 

[superhorns]

I think it's unfair to say that Britain was already the 5th/6th biggest economy before the EU. When Britain joined there was not that much competition e.g. from China, Japan, South Korea and so to still be in the same position now represents a rise in status. Also, the implication is there that without the EU. Britain would be free to negotiate deals outside of it - but Britain is already in that position, just like every other nation. From turnover (Exports and imports) Germany's main partners are the USA, followed by France, the Netherlands, China and the UK. (in 5th place) - Germany's production being fueled by (mostly) Russian oil. This tells us several things, firstly that Germany deals equally freely outside of the EU. secondly that they were fully prepared to go through a Russian embargo (despite the groans of Daimler, Siemens etc.), and thirdly that Britain is not as important to Germany as some on here appear to assume. Britain is a 'payer in', and that would be missed for sure - but Britain is only on third place in this respect, despite its economy. The main reason why Germans mostly want Britain to stay in are emotional - ie. that the EU. would not have come into existence without the historical role played by Britain, and because many Germans feel uncomfortable about their country assuming a leading role and want to ensure a balance to it.

Germans may feel uncomfortable about their domination but they will do absolutely nothing to change it. As the Icelandic PM confirm, they run the show. The recent agreement with Turkey was Merkel negotiating without involvement of other leaders, they were furious.

 

[Toby]

What a ridicules statement to say the eurozone economies are doing fine. They are almost in deflation, unemployment is horrific and people are starving in Greece. The far right wings in most euro counties are thriving, inhabitants in Southern countries express their hate for the dominating northern core.

In contrast the UK has the best growth and investment in Europe and the lowest unemployment rate.

And no need to rub it in, I can tell from this thread that the far-right in this country is alive and well, Brexiters will be goosestepping down the streets if we actually leave the EU...

 

[afcftw]

You randomly chose one year to back up your claim, over time it's not that bad. We also make a lot of money from being part of the EU, as many economists have said.

I'm a young person living in London, you claimed something and have no stats to back it up. You also said Corbyn wants to pull out of Europe, which is VERY different to being Eurosceptic. I don't think the youth of today is any more left-leaning than it was in the past, but the stats don't exist to prove the point either way.

I've done my research, and the big EU economies are doing just fine. The southern ones aren't doing as well as pre-2008, but they're not only just clinging on thanks to trading with us. We would have to sign a deal to trade with the EU like Norway has, we'd still have free movement of people, have to contribute to the EU budget but have no say in any decision-making.

@paragraph 1 - I chose a recent year but could equally have gone for any recent year, the picture is the same, we are one of the countries that pays in far more than we take in direct payments out. The next part of your sentence is about trade, which as pointed out wouldn't stop if we pulled out.

@paragraph 2 - Corbyn clearly doesn't like the EU but he is having to choose his battles as his party are already so torn on so many of his policies. It was however more a tongue in cheek dig at Corbyn than an important point of discussion

@paragraph 3 - the eurozone isn't doing just fine, that's just wrong I'm afraid. It's in a very fragile period and the ECB are using risky monetary policy to try and avoid deflation.

We would have to sign a deal with the Eu, but we wouldn't have to sign the deal Norway have, that's nonsense. Switzerland have a different deal, a Canadian FTA is in process that doesn't require any of the things Norway signed up to. The idea we would get a deal like Norway is wrong.

 

[superhorns]

Zero-hour contracts hiding how badly our economy is doing you mean? Osbourne getting people to register as self-employed to claim loads of tax-credits to improve the stats?

Apart from London most of the UK is a mess, with high unemployment, food banks on the rise and no prospects for the next generations. And a few old codgers want to risk it all just to 'see how it goes'.

The main EU economies are doing fine. You keep on contradicting yourself all over the place. I thought Germany was becoming too powerful and making all the decisions in the EU? Are they not doing fine?

Germany is the only country doing ok, at the expense of the southern countries.

My daughter became self employed recently, she has invoiced £30k in each of the last two months, you need to get off your backside. You returned to the UK because you found it impossible to find a job in socialist France. There is work here if you want it, which is why there is such demand to relocate here.

 

[Toby]

Germany is the only country doing ok, at the expense of the southern countries.

My daughter became self employed recently, she has invoiced £30k in each of the last two months, you need to get off your backside. You returned to the UK because you found it impossible to find a job in socialist France. There is work here if you want it, which is why there is such demand to relocate here.

When did I say that? I work in IT and I lived in RURAL France, about 50 miles away from the nearest largeish town, there's plenty of work in France in the cities.

Get off my backside? You know nothing about me. You made your money ripping off the NHS, taking taxpayers money, and now you've got an 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude towards politics and the rest of the world.

You clueless ****.

 

[colognehornet]

Germany is the only country doing ok, at the expense of the southern countries.

My daughter became self employed recently, she has invoiced £30k in each of the last two months, you need to get off your backside. You returned to the UK because you found it impossible to find a job in socialist France. There is work here if you want it, which is why there is such demand to relocate here.

The main reasons for relocation towards Britain are because people think there is more chance of finding illegal work there - if you want to restrict this then the best way forward must be to control those agencies which are offering zero loan contracts etc. or those employment agencies operating within the 'grey' economy. The second reason is language ie. most people in Europe have English as their first foreign language and have more head start there than if they tried to learn eg. German from scratch.

 

[Toby]

@paragraph 1 - I chose a recent year but could equally have gone for any recent year, the picture is the same, we are one of the countries that pays in far more than we take in direct payments out. The next part of your sentence is about trade, which as pointed out wouldn't stop if we pulled out.

@paragraph 2 - Corbyn clearly doesn't like the EU but he is having to choose his battles as his party are already so torn on so many of his policies. It was however more a tongue in cheek dig at Corbyn than an important point of discussion

@paragraph 3 - the eurozone isn't doing just fine, that's just wrong I'm afraid. It's in a very fragile period and the ECB are using risky monetary policy to try and avoid deflation.

We would have to sign a deal with the Eu, but we wouldn't have to sign the deal Norway have, that's nonsense. Switzerland have a different deal, a Canadian FTA is in process that doesn't require any of the things Norway signed up to. The idea we would get a deal like Norway is wrong.

Norway's economy is doing much better than our own, they have huge cash reserves yet had to sign a deal that treats them unfavourably.

Nice of you to admit you were talking nonsense about Corbyn

Some EU countries aren't doing as well as the others, mostly due to the financial crash caused by bankers. Not trading with us won't cause them to sink.

 

[Deleted 1]

Germany is the only country doing ok, at the expense of the southern countries.

My daughter became self employed recently, she has invoiced £30k in each of the last two months, you need to get off your backside. You returned to the UK because you found it impossible to find a job in socialist France. There is work here if you want it, which is why there is such demand to relocate here.

Bully for your daughter - maybe she could pay for her father to have lessons in interacting with people without insulting and belittling them.

 

[superhorns]

When did I say that? I work in IT and I lived in RURAL France, about 50 miles away from the nearest largeish town, there's plenty of work in France in the cities.

Get off my backside? You know nothing about me. You made your money ripping off the NHS, taking taxpayers money, and now you've got an 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude towards politics and the rest of the world.

You clueless ****.

While you are whinging about the unfairness of everything millions are going about their business positively improving their lives. There are fantastic opportunities in the UK due to the sensible policies of our government that promote opportunities for all.

I had a discussion yesterday with a local builder, brick layers and other tradesmen are currently charging £250 a day, no wonder half of Europe want to come here.