Off Topic Political Debate

As we did for the Lisbon Treaty or the way it was force fed on the Irish and other countries that initially voted against? With the continued expansion as the desire of the power hungry remains unfulfilled, democracy becomes weakend. After the disaster of the Eurozone project, the answer was more and deeper political and financial harmony - it just goes on and on.

 

For once I will agree with you on one thing ie. Democracy has been weakened. In it could all be described as post democratic. The reasons are however much wider than you assume. Firstly, every privatization weakens it because it takes resources away from the state - if the state does not have the resources to turn the wishes of the electorate into practice. Secondly corporations have more power now than the state - often with turnovers larger than the states to which they belong. If our sovereignty is not taken away by the EU. or similar organizations then it is taken away by the World Bank, WTO, ratings agencies, TTIP and so on. The problem is that democracy rose against the background of the national state - and all of our democratic forms have been formed on the basis of the nation state - we need now to transform these forms to the higher level. One day we will have 'European' parties which are recognized as such by the electorate - at the moment we have blocks (with very few people knowing who sits with who in Brussels). The Euro Conservatives do not sit together with other conservative parties like the German CDU. but rather on their own or with the AfD. The Greens do not sit together - some sit with the SNP. and other separatists. Others sit with the far left. Ukip members take money from an organisation which they do not recognize - in short, they do nothing in Brussels other than knock up their expense accounts. The electorate needs to take back its 'Europe' and they can only do this through political engagement, Europe wide protests, etc. but above all from inside - moaning from the sidelines is no option. Once the British decide that they are Europeans as well (that they have a shared destiny with France, Germany etc. which is more important than the relationship to the USA. ex commonwealth, China etc.) then we can start to change things.

 

Nice to have the queen on the side of brexit,

welcome ma'am.

 

Brexit must be getting desparate if they are having to resort to this.

 

So says the Sun

 

I knew a Sun deputy Editor years back.... actually quite grew to like him.... we did a dinghy sailing course together... and he saw the paper as a comic....

 

Of course I was a Mirror man in those days until I realised....

 

Try reading a grown up paper like the Daily Telegraph. It appears Michael Gove was also at the meeting in which she expressed concern at the way the EU was going.

 

You and I read that so you could hardly call it grown up.

 

speak for yourself matey.

The fact that the Sun has made the story front page headline will encourage many of the half wits who buy it to vote brexit, job done.

 

I see the derisive and derogatory statements are continuing.

Just so pathetic. reveals a lot about the mentality of the poster

I think I will turn back on my ignored member status for someone...

 

Can you imagine the scenario.

Three builders off of the building site in some grimy northern town sitting in their white van at lunchtime. In between mouthfuls of fried mars bar and crisps one utters 'if its good enough for the Queen its good enough for me"

 

On the other hand the readers are so half witted that they will have forgotten this by polling day ! It shows your opinions on democracy up very well that you are prepared to gratefully receive votes from all corners by fair means or foul.

 

Until the government comes to its senses and bans all socialists and dopey greens from voting then we are stuck with the present system.

 

Nice bit of stereotyping there.

 

Interesting news in France today as the most popular politician in the country is saying that the nation does not want a super state and that now is the time to push for treaty reforms. The UK has achieved significant changes to the way they want to to be involved, so it is not impossible. He is not a member of the loony left or the racist right, but a government minister. Has it been reported in any of the press?

Any news on Farage lately? Not seen sight or sound of him since his spectacular own goal. Perhaps he has seen the light and gone to ground.

 

Blimey this has gone downhill rapidly...how about a little less fishing?

Back on the refugee crisis topic - I see the head of the UNHRC has stated that the "deal" being proposed by the EU for Turkey could break International Law..now that will be an interesting debate! No doubt some cleaver wordsmithing as was done on the Lisbon Treaty will suffice! Meanwhile, Turkey will be trousering Billions and still shipping all of their flotsam to the EU all nicely agreed - I can see half of East Africa heading their way!

 

OFH, the dilemma you have in the eurozone is that the only chance of survival for the institution is full political and fiscal union. Until that happens the southern European countries will always be uncompetitive against the core northern members. They will require continuous tranches of bailout money which I believe is becoming increasingly difficult politically.

The mistake was to introduce a common currency before the other basics were in place. So you are left with the entire electorate agreeing to reforms which complete the superstate or fudging along the present situation which may suit Germany but not most of the others.

 

I'm looking forward to going fishing this year with my new 'senior' licence.

 

Looking forward? - looks like you are fully in Jack Hargraves mode already!