Celtic songbook

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MalteseMick said:
I'm not asking that Celtic bans the wearing of the Poppy - I think it should be an individual's free choice. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of holding a minutes silence and collecting money for the British fallen while banning songs which sing about the Irish fallen.

I fully understand how many people appreciate the sacrifice many young men gave to protect their country from foreign aggression during the World Wars, but unlike most British people I don't think that support of the British military and it's fallen is an unquestionable moral absolute - especially when many times Britain and it's army was the foreign aggressor itself.
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It all comes down to a simple thing Mick, all that is asked of the fans is to stay silent for one minute, is that too much to ask one day a year?

I am not a follower of any religion but if I went to a church whose religion I vehemently disagreed with, would I be in the right for singing or whistling during the times while people were praying or even enjoying a moment's reflection? I don't have to add to the collection either but I would not kick up a fuss if they decided to pass the plate.
 
sorry if I derailed this with the poppy thing.

we have a highly politicised support, so it is easily done I suppose.

and i promise I'll stay out of it now as well. I'm itching to get involved but I end up taking over. I'll only take a ****stirring brief.
as long as you all know that!
 
VenomPD said:
<laugh> Aye because I care what some Celtic fan thinks on a football forum. How will I go on with EspaniaCelt and Rebel not liking me?

Get back to your yoghurt <ok>
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Now, now, Venom how could we dislike you, a fellow Celtic fan? But, as such, we were just trying to show you the error of your ways - an impossible task I fear....but as a fellow Celt it would have been remiss of us not to try!!!LOL!!

By the way, I couldn't believe this thread was still going - at 6 pages last I looked (are you trying to set a record?) Anyway, having now read the remaining posts since, from afar, I think Mick's logic wins the argument on this particular topic- for me at least! LOL! :emoticon-0150-hands
 
MalteseMick said:
Either it's all good or none of it is good. Our fan base derives itself from a mostly Irish background, the British military have been involved in some nasty conflicts with Ireland - it's not rocket science to see why there will always be tension there. If we are not allowed to vocally support one side in the conflict then we sure as hell shouldn't be forced to pay homage, in the form of minute's silence and financial donations, to the other side.
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A minute's silence before a game (or applause or whatever) once a year that every club in Britain participates in is not equivalent to singing "Ooh ah up the Ra" every away game.

If you don't want to buy a poppy, don't. If you find the applause / silence annoying or offensive then stay out the ground until it's over. Perhaps it should be kept away from football - I tend to believe it should unless the game actually takes place on remembrance sunday - but it's just not the same as singing the so-called 'political' songs all year round.
 
Personally I think the whole remembrance day thing should be the same as the political chants/songs. They both have no place in football, and should not be forced upon anyone.

And I say this with very strong views on both personally, but I believe I have much more logical and relative ways of expressing those views, than having to do so in a football ground.

It's a simple all or nothing approach as the answer for me.
 
MalteseMick said:
I'm not asking that Celtic bans the wearing of the Poppy - I think it should be an individual's free choice. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of holding a minutes silence and collecting money for the British fallen while banning songs which sing about the Irish fallen.
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You do realsie the poppy isn't just for British people that died or worn by British people?

You can't honestly compare IRA songs to a minutes silence can you?
 
RebelBhoy said:
why not?
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One is an annual charity event commemorated by every club in britain; the other, well, isn't.

As I've said, there's a perfectly reasonable argument that says it's not appropriate to commemorate the war dead at a football match. It's not particularly relevant to football, it probably should be a personal choice and it should be done so at the correct time (which is 11.00am on Remembrance Sunday). But because it is celebrated, it's not an acceptable 'excuse' for chanting IRA songs.
 
Admiral Pure said:
One is an annual charity event commemorated by every club in britain; the other, well, isn't.

As I've said, there's a perfectly reasonable argument that says it's not appropriate to commemorate the war dead at a football match. It's not particularly relevant to football, it probably should be a personal choice and it should be done so at the correct time (which is 11.00am on Remembrance Sunday). But because it is celebrated, it's not an acceptable 'excuse' for chanting IRA songs.
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<applause>
 
Admiral Pure said:
One is an annual charity event commemorated by every club in britain; the other, well, isn't.

As I've said, there's a perfectly reasonable argument that says it's not appropriate to commemorate the war dead at a football match. It's not particularly relevant to football, it probably should be a personal choice and it should be done so at the correct time (which is 11.00am on Remembrance Sunday). But because it is celebrated, it's not an acceptable 'excuse' for chanting IRA songs.
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I never cited it as an "excuse"
 
Admiral Pure said:
One is an annual charity event commemorated by every club in britain; the other, well, isn't.

As I've said, there's a perfectly reasonable argument that says it's not appropriate to commemorate the war dead at a football match. It's not particularly relevant to football, it probably should be a personal choice and it should be done so at the correct time (which is 11.00am on Remembrance Sunday). But because it is celebrated, it's not an acceptable 'excuse' for chanting IRA songs.
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To you it's not.....but others may see it differently.....and obviously do! That does not make them right and you wrong - nor indeed you right and them wrong. It just means you have different perspectives on such matters.
 
EspaniaCelt said:
To you it's not.....but others may see it differently.....and obviously do! That does not make them right and you wrong - nor indeed you right and them wrong. It just means you have different perspectives on such matters.
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As do we all, but no one at Celtic park, the fans or the owner or directors asked the Green Brigade to make a poppy protest banner. I was ashamed to be a Celtic fan that day and so were the majority of Celtic fans as the fall out showed.

If the GB want our club to be pariahs then they are going the right way about it. They don't care about Celtic it would seem, all they care about is their own overblown self importance.
 
DevAdvocate said:
As do we all, but no one at Celtic park, the fans or the owner or directors asked the Green Brigade to make a poppy protest banner. I was ashamed to be a Celtic fan that day and so were the majority of Celtic fans as the fall out showed.

If the GB want our club to be pariahs then they are going the right way about it. They don't care about Celtic it would seem, all they care about is their own overblown self importance.
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Fair enough Dev but the Green Brigade will have their own perspective on this as well and because the majority seem to be against their protest, it doesn't necessarily make the Green Brigade wrong. I think Mick made some very valid points earlier which for me seemed to highlight the background to a lot this and which I found interesting. Maybe it should be the case that Celtic Club authorities meet with the Green Brigade to try to come to some agreement rather than trying to dictate to them - as has been pointed out by another poster.
 
EspaniaCelt said:
Fair enough Dev but the Green Brigade will have their own perspective on this as well and because the majority seem to be against their protest, it doesn't necessarily make the Green Brigade wrong. I think Mick made some very valid points earlier which for me seemed to highlight the background to a lot this and which I found interesting. Maybe it should be the case that Celtic Club authorities meet with the Green Brigade to try to come to some agreement rather than trying to dictate to them - as has been pointed out by another poster.
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To enter dialogue with the GB would in my opinion, give them some form of legitamacy, they being a tiny minority do not deserve such standing. If they are real fans they will avoid doing things which would bring the club further shame. Thousands upon thousands of Celtic fans go to Celtic Park to watch football and they leave their politics at the door. I have no problems with songs like BoTOB or Fields of Athenry for the most part, but I personally don't believe they should be sung at Celtic Park.

If the GB continue to sing "ooh Ah Up the Ra" despite being repeatedly asked not to (even by Neil Lennon) they they have lost any credibility they may have had and therefore they are in no position to start dictating - to the majority - what they consider Political, they have even less right to damn the consequences when they feel like it.

To me the Green Brigade are nothing but a bunch of teenage (for the most part) hypocrites. How can they sing songs about the IRA and complain when Celtic FC decide to hold a minute's silence for the war dead? What weight do their protests over the Poppy on the shirt carry when they themselves are overtly politcal?

They can be great for Celtic and can be entertaining and no doubt vocal in their support, but they are a group of fans, nothing more nothing less, if they want to be fans, then let them act as such and not some agitators who will only harm us and drag our name through the mud.
 
DevAdvocate said:
To enter dialogue with the GB would in my opinion, give them some form of legitamicy, they being a tiny minority do not deserve such standing. If they are real fans they will avoid doing things which would bring the club further shame. Thousands upon thousands of Celtic fans go to Celtic Park to watch football and they leave their politics at the door. I have no problems with songs like BoTOB or Fields of Athenry for the most part, but I personally don't believe they should be sung at Celtic Park.

If the GB continue to sing "ooh Ah Up the Ra" despite being repeatedly asked not to (even by Neil Lennon) they they have lost any credibility they may have had and therefore they are in no position to start dictating - to the majority - what they consider Political, they have even less right to damn the consequences when they feel like it.

To me the Green Brigade are nothing but a bunch of teenage (for the most part) hypocrites. How can they sing songs about the IRA and complain when Celtic FC decide to hold a minute's silence for the war dead? What weight do their protests over the Poppy on the shirt carry when they themselves are overtly politcal?

They can be great for Celtic and can be entertaining and no doubt vocal in their support, but they are a group of fans, nothing more nothing less, if they want to be fans, then let them act as such and not some agitators who will only harm us and drag our name through the mud.
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I would have to bow to your knowledge of the Green Brigade generally but is it not the case that, simply writing them off, in the way you describe them and not talking to them, for the reasons you state, does not solve the problem for Celtic FC. The 'leaving of politics at the door' debate has been more than amply covered previously and I thought Mick's highlighting of how the significance of the poppy was seen as equally offensive to some as the Green Brigade's singing about the IRA was to others, showed the differing perspectives on a complicated issue. I certainly have no wish to start all that up again.

In my experience, dialogue can usually resolve most things, if parties are willing to compromise and the only way to find that out is for the Celtic authorities to talk to the Green Brigade - that could be a win, win situation and everything to be gained from it. On the number of occasions I have had the good fortune to attend games I have found the Green Brigade's singing brought life to quite a few of them when the atmosphere in the stadium was practically dead - so I would not want to see them silenced altogether. However, if dialogue fails to achieve agreement then it is a matter for the club to decide what to do about it - and that too will depend on the clubs perspective on things!!!!.
 
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