Match Day Thread Norwich City v Liverpool

[ilovedelia]

The point I'm making is that he is the Captain/leader on the pitch, it's his job to stop that happening. As it did happen and he didn't do anything about it and he was involved in it then, surely he's at fault. Your maths is okay, but obviously the other 4 players were just doing what ever they felt they needed to do, and not on a organised manner.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

The point I'm making is that he is the Captain/leader on the pitch, it's his job to stop that happening. As it did happen and he didn't do anything about it and he was involved in it then, surely he's at fault. Your maths is okay, but obviously the other 4 players were just doing what ever they felt they needed to do, and not on a organised manner.

And there ladies and gentlemen is the reason I really can't be bothered getting into debates with people on this forum anymore. Too many people have stubbornly made their minds up and will look for anything they possibly can to justify their steadfastly held opinion as fact, and don't care if what they post comes across to the rational mind as total and utter bilge

 

[ThaiCanary]

And there ladies and gentlemen is the reason I really can't be bothered getting into debates with people on this forum anymore. Too many people have stubbornly made their minds up and will look for anything they possibly can to justify their steadfastly held opinion as fact, and don't care if what they post comes across to the rational mind as total and utter bilge

Steady on Munky, you are beginning to sound like a Christian arguing with a Muslim about which faith is the "real" one.

 

[JKCanary]

And there ladies and gentlemen is the reason I really can't be bothered getting into debates with people on this forum anymore. Too many people have stubbornly made their minds up and will look for anything they possibly can to justify their steadfastly held opinion as fact, and don't care if what they post comes across to the rational mind as total and utter bilge

That's a form of confirmation bias. It's standard human procedure and not exclusive to this forum

 

[carrowcanario]

And there ladies and gentlemen is the reason I really can't be bothered getting into debates with people on this forum anymore. Too many people have stubbornly made their minds up and will look for anything they possibly can to justify their steadfastly held opinion as fact, and don't care if what they post comes across to the rational mind as total and utter bilge

I think to be fair that comment could be laid at the door of people on both sides of the debate.

 

[ilovedelia]

I

And there ladies and gentlemen is the reason I really can't be bothered getting into debates with people on this forum anymore. Too many people have stubbornly made their minds up and will look for anything they possibly can to justify their steadfastly held opinion as fact, and don't care if what they post comes across to the rational mind as total and utter bilge

Isn't that exactly what your doing?

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

I think to be fair that comment could be laid at the door of people on both sides of the debate.

I don't disagree for a second that it could, however if you are aiming that directly at me in particular I think you should make note that I do always at least try to look at things from both sides, can you show me where ILD or any of the other Martin haters have done that on this thread? You don't have to look too hard to see criticism of Martin's performance on saturday from me, I have said numerous times his backpass was a calamitous error that clearly cost us dearly, I have never said he is a brilliant centre-half and I have never said he should be our long term first choice centre-half so I'd say that my comments (certainly compared with the majority on here) are generally balanced to a certain degree.

However anyone who says he was useless all game either is lying or doesn't know what they are talking about as I will stand by my opinion that for the first 60 minutes he had an excellent game, and I hereby challenge anyone to go back and watch the entire game and tell me I'm wrong in that. And I definitely don't make up rubbish like "he's the captain and leader so it's his fault if things go wrong" or trying to excuse the four other players who could have stopped that goal by just saying "they were just doing whatever they needed to do" and then blaming it on the captain, and the main reason I don't do that is because it is absolute nonsense, even verging on being somewhat "pathetic", but again that's just my opinion so feel free to disagree

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

I


Isn't that exactly what your doing?

Not really, no

 

[Russ Martin 2]

Whilst it's sad that Russell Martin seems to have divided our fanbase how does crucifying him help? If I'm completely honest, if I was Alex Neil I would start with Klose and Bassong playing centre halves and Martin at right back. He's decent at right back. It's an opinion and I gather it's an unpopular one but he is actually our best defensive option at right back.

 

[ThaiCanary]

Whilst it's sad that Russell Martin seems to have divided our fanbase how does crucifying him help? If I'm completely honest, if I was Alex Neil I would start with Klose and Bassong playing centre halves and Martin at right back. He's decent at right back. It's an opinion and I gather it's an unpopular one but he is actually our best defensive option at right back.

and stick Pinto in midfield.

I reckon, after watching him on Saturday, he would make a better wide midfield player than right back, and could even put Redmond to shame with his current form

 

[ilovedelia]

I

I don't disagree for a second that it could, however if you are aiming that directly at me in particular I think you should make note that I do always at least try to look at things from both sides, can you show me where ILD or any of the other Martin haters have done that on this thread? You don't have to look too hard to see criticism of Martin's performance on saturday from me, I have said numerous times his backpass was a calamitous error that clearly cost us dearly, I have never said he is a brilliant centre-half and I have never said he should be our long term first choice centre-half so I'd say that my comments (certainly compared with the majority on here) are generally balanced to a certain degree.

However anyone who says he was useless all game either is lying or doesn't know what they are talking about as I will stand by my opinion that for the first 60 minutes he had an excellent game, and I hereby challenge anyone to go back and watch the entire game and tell me I'm wrong in that. And I definitely don't make up rubbish like "he's the captain and leader so it's his fault if things go wrong" or trying to excuse the four other players who could have stopped that goal by just saying "they were just doing whatever they needed to do" and then blaming it on the captain, and the main reason I don't do that is because it is absolute nonsense, even verging on being somewhat "pathetic", but again that's just my opinion so feel free to disagree

I do disagree, what is the captains role? Just to shake hands at kickoff. No he's supposed to organise/make decisions etc as well as play, for me he didn't do that and doesn't do that. And I don't think my opinions are "pathetic"!

 

[ilovedelia]

Not really, no

Really???? Two points of view being debated, and yours is the only one that matters! I have a rational mind and don't believe my argument is "bilge"!

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Really???? Two points of view being debated, and yours is the only one that matters! I have a rational mind and don't believe my argument is "bilge"!

I didn't say mine was the only one that matters, however out of yours and mine I would say that mine is the only one that possesses any kind of balance to it and is based on actual facts rather then pre-conceived opinion, and (dare I say it) I would also confidently state it's the only one that is correct (but then of course I would, wouldn't I?)

 

[ilovedelia]

I didn't say mine was the only one that matters, however out of yours and mine I would say that mine is the only one that possesses any kind of balance to it and is based on actual facts rather then pre-conceived opinion, and (dare I say it) I would also confidently state it's the only one that is correct (but then of course I would, wouldn't I?)

You are entitled to that opinion.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

You are entitled to that opinion.

As you are yours (doesn't mean I can't say that I think you're wrong though, and when I do I hope I at least attempt to back up my argument with what I consider to be a bit more substance than you are including in yours)

 

[carrowcanario]

I don't disagree for a second that it could, however if you are aiming that directly at me in particular I think you should make note that I do always at least try to look at things from both sides, can you show me where ILD or any of the other Martin haters have done that on this thread? You don't have to look too hard to see criticism of Martin's performance on saturday from me, I have said numerous times his backpass was a calamitous error that clearly cost us dearly, I have never said he is a brilliant centre-half and I have never said he should be our long term first choice centre-half so I'd say that my comments (certainly compared with the majority on here) are generally balanced to a certain degree.

However anyone who says he was useless all game either is lying or doesn't know what they are talking about as I will stand by my opinion that for the first 60 minutes he had an excellent game, and I hereby challenge anyone to go back and watch the entire game and tell me I'm wrong in that. And I definitely don't make up rubbish like "he's the captain and leader so it's his fault if things go wrong" or trying to excuse the four other players who could have stopped that goal by just saying "they were just doing whatever they needed to do" and then blaming it on the captain, and the main reason I don't do that is because it is absolute nonsense, even verging on being somewhat "pathetic", but again that's just my opinion so feel free to disagree

It wasn't particularly aimed at you and I don't doubt that I do this on occasions. As I've said many times before I think its much better if posters focus posts on their views (even if I don't agree with them) rather than on the views / motives of posters who they don't agree with. I don't doubt that all posters who support Norwich want the same thing. Your initial post raised some good points. As you know I've never been convinced that Martin is good enough for the PL and I've never been convinced of the Martin / Bassong partnership. Whilst Martin did undoubtedly do some good things during the game I never felt comfortable that with him and Bassong at the centre of the defence. To be honest whenever those 2 play together I never feel comfortable we always seem more organised when Bennett / Bassong play together, not that I consider either of them to be good enough for the PL either individually or as a pair. I would suggest that both Pinto & Brady have come in for less stick than Martin has, because in Pinto's case he is new and in Brady's case over the season he's f**ked up a lot less. I do think the role of the captain is much more than shaking the other Captain's hand at the start of the game and as captain there are expectations on Martin that are over and above every other player on the pitch. It may be old fashion but at captain and a CB I do not think it is unreasonable to expect him to organise the defence and in my view we always look less rather than more organised when he plays at CB. As I said many, many times before I don't think Martin is good enough to play CB in the PL. Other than Klose (who is an unknown) we don't in my mind have another CB who is good enough to be a starting 11 CB in the premier league. We need to sign another one who is better than what we have (excluding Klose) and move one on. I would be happy if this was Martin, but whether he stays or not he shouldn't in my mind be starting a game as CB nor should he be the captain. Martin has been a great servant to this club, however the time might now be right for all parties if he moved on.

 

[ilovedelia]

As you are yours (doesn't mean I can't say that I think you're wrong though, and when I do I hope I at least attempt to back up my argument with what I consider to be a bit more substance than you are including in yours)

I think you're wrong, substance does cancel fact. But if we're agreeing to differ then I'm happy to leave it there.

 

[ilovedelia]

T

I think you're wrong, substance does cancel fact. But if we're agreeing to differ then I'm happy to leave it there.

That should read NOT cancel fact, bloody phone.

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

I


I do disagree, what is the captains role? Just to shake hands at kickoff. No he's supposed to organise/make decisions etc as well as play, for me he didn't do that and doesn't do that. And I don't think my opinions are "pathetic"!

Actually, yes. In football the captain is largely an empty, meaningless gesture. Argentina's captain is Messi and Brazil's is Neymar, neither of whom are tactical, defensive geniuses are they?

 

[carrowcanario]

Actually, yes. In football the captain is largely an empty, meaningless gesture. Argentina's captain is Messi and Brazil's is Neymar, neither of whom are tactical, defensive geniuses are they?

Maybe not, but you could make an arguement for them organising the attacked quiet well. Trouble is when Martin plays at CB our defence seems more disorganised then when he doesn't. So you could draw the conclusion that far for making a positive contribution to good organisation he makes a negative one. Probably in most peoples view not a good quality for a captain to have.