Transfers then and now

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ncfcwonky

ncfcwonky

Active Member
Jan 30, 2011
3,465
18
38
Naaaarfolk
Hi all, now that Lambert has brought in all of his summer signings I thought it might be worth looking at our squad back in 2004, just before our last Premiership season.

I may not be 100% right with the 2004/2005 but I did my best. Also with the curren squad, we're not quite finished with players possibly going out on loan or being signed by other clubs.

2004/2005 -- (summer signings in bold)

1 Green (GK)
3 Drury
5 Fleming
6 Huckerby
7 Mulryne
8 Holt
9 Jonson
10 Bentley
11 Brennan
12 Gallagher (GK)
14 McKenzie
15 Safri
16 Charlton
17 Edworthy
18 McVeigh
19 Svensson
20 Francis
21 Ward (GK)
22 Henderson
23 Jarvis
24 Shackell
26 Helveg
27 Doherty
28 Crow
30 Lewis

2011/2012 -- (summer signings in bold)

1 Ruddy (GK)
2 R Martin
3 Drury
6 Whitbred
7 Crofts
8 Hughes
9 Holt
10 Jackson
11 Surman
13 Rudd (GK)
14 Hoolahan
15 Fox
16 C Martin
17 Adeyemi
18 K Smith
19 Lappin
20 Barnett
21 Wilbraham
22 Ward
23 O Johnson
24 McNamee
26 S Smith
27 C McDonald
28 Francomb
30 Tudor-Jones
31 Steer (GK)
32 Tierney
34 Ball
38 Dawkin
- De Laet
- Naughton
- B Johnson
- Vaughan
- Morison
- Pilkington
- Bennett

---------------------------------------------

The thing that immedietly catches my eye is the fact that we have fewer foreign players (excluding ROI) coming in this time around - de Laet being the only foreign signing. Compared with three in 2004.



Overall we only have three foreign players this season compared to five in 2004.

Of the five in 2004 - two had never played in English football before (Jonson and Helveg) but the three in the 2011 squad were signed from English clubs.




I have also discovered that the average age of the players, as of 1st September 2004, is 25.76. The average age of the 2011 squad as of 1st September 2011 is 24.5. There may be a couple of mistakes in this calculation but there are a lot of players and a lot of maths to be done to double check!



I also feel that out of the new signings in 2004 only one, Bentley, suggests young and/or hungry. The rest while experienced footballers were not really experienced in the Premiership



Overall, I am far happier with the squad we have this time round compared to back in 2004.



Would love to hear other people's opinions!
 
the biggest difference in my opinion between the two sides is that when you look back, we didn't have any striker who you thought, 'yeah, they could get to double figures'. this time we have three or four. the other big difference is mentality. we are more attacking, gung ho at times. we were too negative last time out. we have also conquered our fear away from home over the past two seasons. we have a team that is used to winning - even the players brought have been carefully signed from mainly winning sides. when you put all things into context, plus the fact we have a truly brilliant manager, things really do look rosy.
 
I completely agree with you super. I thought that McKenzie and Svensson were ok, but lacked the quality to be able to change a match.

Worthington was extremely negative with his tatics back then and was incredibly defensive. Now, we have 9 strikers - most of which I feel could put in a decent game - and Lambert is not afraid to attack. It showed when Lambert played 4 strikers in the last 10 minutes of games when we desperately needed a goal. We would have never have done that in 2004.
 
I think the signings now are better than the last batch so great work to your manager and good luck for the season ahead, hope you do well/
 
On paper it looks a better squad now, but has the overall standard gone up, probably yes.
We have a better squad but will certainly need it - not being negative but I think everyone at the club isn't underestimating the task at hand
 
canary_max said:
On paper it looks a better squad now, but has the overall standard gone up, probably yes.
We have a better squad but will certainly need it - not being negative but I think everyone at the club isn't underestimating the task at hand
Click to expand...

Interesting question there, has the overall standard of the prem gone up? I think the standard of the top sides has not and if anything has dropped a little. For instance, the Arsenal side of 2004 had gone the previous season unbeaten in the league. The Man U side were far stronger than the current one. The Liverpool side likewise. Chelsea are the only ones who have maintained their standard, but in 2004 they were a little behind Arsenal and United.

Unfortunately, these sides are not the ones we will be competing with. The standard of the 'also rans' has risen dramatically since 2004.

Also, in 2004, the only reason the relegation issue went to the last day was that there were 4 sides struggling not 3. We went down with Palace and Southampton. WBA survived by a single point on the last day but the gap from them up to the next team (Blackburn if memory serves) was quite substantial. In reality, none of the bottom 4 were really good enough to deserve survival, but as only 3 could go down WBA were given another chance. They were relegated the following year and so I think this proves my point.

The task ahead is indeed huge, but so was the task just completed. I think we have gone about developing our squad in the correct way given the rescources at hand. We have given ourselves the maximum possible chance in my opinion and with Lamberts guiding hand I think we will be ok. It might be tight, but I think we will do it.
 
I said it then and i will say it now, the signings worthy made did not cry "qaulity" and they made little difference.

This time round, we know we have got some qaulity signings in the bag.

You just need to compare positions of the 2 bunches.

Charlton - De Laet
Safri - Johnson
Jonson - Bennett
Bentley - Pilkington
Helveg- Naughton

+ Vaughan and Morison - Ashton

Every position of the above i believe we have aquired alot better this time round though ashton will be a tough one to replace. Safri was alright but is he as good as johnson, only time will tell. The others though, need to say no more!
 
Chelsea won the Premiership the season we were there, so saying they weren't up to Man U/Arsenal standards is a tad harsh!

I personally think Man U/Arsenal/Chelsea have all gone backwards since then, as had Liverpool until very recently. The signings they (Liverpool) have made this summer make them a good outside bet for the title in my opinion.

The likes of Tottenham/Man City are naturally stronger, but many mid-table sides aren't what they were - take Villa for instance.
 
I_Clean_holtys_boots said:
I said it then and i will say it now, the signings worthy made did not cry "qaulity" and they made little difference.

This time round, we know we have got some qaulity signings in the bag.

You just need to compare positions of the 2 bunches.

Charlton - De Laet
Safri - Johnson
Jonson - Bennett
Bentley - Pilkington
Helveg- Naughton

+ Vaughan and Morison - Ashton

Every position of the above i believe we have aquired alot better this time round though ashton will be a tough one to replace. Safri was alright but is he as good as johnson, only time will tell. The others though, need to say no more!
Click to expand...

Time will certainly tell re our signings.

I do remember at this point in 2004 I was really excited that we had managed to sign plyers of the quality of Helveg and Jonsson. I also saw the loan capture of Bentley as a masterstroke. I was very happy with Safri too as had always rated him highly. What I didn't take into account at the time was the players reasons for signing for us.

You must admit, that on paper through previous experience Safri, Jonsson, Bentley and Helveg should all have been much better than they turned out. At this point in 2004, they possibly looked a better bunch than we have gathered here.

Hunger and desire are the key factors this time. our existing squad (and I believe the newbies) have both. THAT is what will stand us in the best possible position going into what will undoubtably be a very tough challenge.
 
canaryjimbob said:
Chelsea won the Premiership the season we were there, so saying they weren't up to Man U/Arsenal standards is a tad harsh!

I personally think Man U/Arsenal/Chelsea have all gone backwards since then, as had Liverpool until very recently. The signings they (Liverpool) have made this summer make them a good outside bet for the title in my opinion.

The likes of Tottenham/Man City are naturally stronger, but many mid-table sides aren't what they were - take Villa for instance.
Click to expand...

Oops, my bad. I thought it was United, but you are right. Sorry.

What I was getting at was that although the top sides are not quite as good as they were then, they are still not really in the same league as us. I think the general standard of the rest is better. The teams we need to nick points off to survive are the likes of Bolton, Fulham, Stoke, Wigan, WBA, Blackburn etc and I think these are all better than their equivalents then.

Villa maybe have gone backwards, but I still think they are a better side than Blackburn, WBA, fulham etc were in 2004. They have not fallen as far as that yet.
 
I would say that one team that has got stronger is Fulham, some how they still ended up in a decent position despite Hodgson leaving and I would also say Bolton have improved quite a bit as they were challenging for a Europa Cup place last season.

Jimbob, I feel that Liverpool's signings haven't been as good as they could have been. It's clear they're looking towards the future with a signing such as Henderson and their interest in Wickham. Downing is a decent player and so is Adam, but I don't think Adam is a top four side player.



I_Clean_holtys_boots said:
I said it then and i will say it now, the signings worthy made did not cry "qaulity" and they made little difference.

This time round, we know we have got some qaulity signings in the bag.

You just need to compare positions of the 2 bunches.

Charlton - De Laet
Safri - Johnson
Jonson - Bennett
Bentley - Pilkington
Helveg- Naughton

+ Vaughan and Morison - Ashton

Every position of the above i believe we have aquired alot better this time round though ashton will be a tough one to replace. Safri was alright but is he as good as johnson, only time will tell. The others though, need to say no more!
Click to expand...

The current signings have proved their worth to Lambert and the fans by playing in England before, and we knew they showed promise and hunger.

On paper, Helveg looked like a decent signing: a free from Inter Milan, and Danish international. But that doesn't prove anything.

Also, we certainly don't lack in quantity this time around. In 2004, we had McKenzie, Svensson and eventually Ashton. We also had Huckerby and McVeigh who copuld play as a striker, but striker was not their strongest position. This time we have (for now) Holt, Jackson, C Martin, Wilbraham, O Johnson, McDonald, Vaughan, Morison and apparently Pilkington can also play as a striker.

If we have an injury crisis again (I believe we had one last time in the Premiership) then there is enough cover. We have 9 strikers now compared to 4/5 last time out. Most, I would argue, show enough quality to play for us in the Premiership, O Johnson and McDonald maybe not.

We have four full-backs that have proven their worth and I am confident they all could do well in the Premier League. In 2004, we also had four full-backs: Drury appeared to me to be the only one good enough.
 
ncfcwonky said:
I would say that one team that has got stronger is Fulham, some how they still ended up in a decent position despite Hodgson leaving and I would also say Bolton have improved quite a bit as they were challenging for a Europa Cup place last season.

Jimbob, I feel that Liverpool's signings haven't been as good as they could have been. It's clear they're looking towards the future with a signing such as Henderson and their interest in Wickham. Downing is a decent player and so is Adam, but I don't think Adam is a top four side player.





The current signings have proved their worth to Lambert and the fans by playing in England before, and we knew they showed promise and hunger.

On paper, Helveg looked like a decent signing: a free from Inter Milan, and Danish international. But that doesn't prove anything.

Also, we certainly don't lack in quantity this time around. In 2004, we had McKenzie, Svensson and eventually Ashton. We also had Huckerby and McVeigh who copuld play as a striker, but striker was not their strongest position. This time we have (for now) Holt, Jackson, C Martin, Wilbraham, O Johnson, McDonald, Vaughan, Morison and apparently Pilkington can also play as a striker.

If we have an injury crisis again (I believe we had one last time in the Premiership) then there is enough cover. We have 9 strikers now compared to 4/5 last time out. Most, I would argue, show enough quality to play for us in the Premiership, O Johnson and McDonald maybe not.

We have four full-backs that have proven their worth and I am confident they all could do well in the Premier League. In 2004, we also had four full-backs: Drury appeared to me to be the only one good enough.
Click to expand...

We are certainly more balanced this time aorund.
 
Hi Guys, Fulham fan here - thanks for the positive comments about our club.

I think you are right to say that the better strength in depth is key to your season. The teams that have improved - like us and Bolton, have done so by improving as a team, rather than buying a few prima donnas.

Enjoy the season!
 
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