How long should Ron get to turn things around?

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tomw24 said:
Well against Liverpool and United we suddenly stopped attacking down the flank that we were getting joy from. Either Koeman told them to do that or he didn't notice. Either way poor. Also his subs against United lost us the game IMO. And why he picked Caulker against Liverpool over Yoshida was ludicrous.
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This shows that it is not easy.

Do you really think Ron told the players to stop doing what was working (attacking wide)? Think about that calmly for a moment - the answer must be know unless Ron is some kind of fruit cake.

I believe we lost the game against united because the players stopped doing what was working. Old ground I know but Pelle for one literally spend 35 minutes of that second half walking.

I agree on Caulker, but I'm lead to believe he did ok when he came on as a sub against City three days before that game. Is that right? Reading in here and those that saw the game, they seem to say that. So let's take that a minute. Manager sends replacement CB on and he does well/ok but then doesn't play him in next game. I believe it was TinTin that said about Gazza that a player coming in and doing well should start the next game. Jose was injured, manager plays player who replaced him ok in previous game .... Is that really a bad decision? I don't think so (and I'm saying I prefer Yoshida) as it is a logical decision. Caulker was just awful.

In answer to your other post about relegation, I don't want us relegated but as you said, I don't think that will happen. We are in a bad run of results over the last 6 league games and we want that to turn around. I'd like us to stick with the manager as long as we don't really end up looking like being relegated as this club needs stability. We as fans moan because players leave and therefore we lose that stability - I can't see that changing when things go well. This leaves stability with the manager. If we have a poor season ( this may be it, but two wins suddenly changes that picture) then so be it. I can live with that. I forecast us to finish 12th but if it's 15th/16th, ok it happens. If we change the manager who is probably the highest profile manager we have had since Glen Hoddle, we then go through a whole knew set-up, risk of people settling in, players not liking or understanding the new manager or coaches and the gamble starts again.

It's not nice right now, however it's 6 games where we've got 1 point having won 20 points prior to that. This means it's not all bad.

The key thing for me is that despite all the expertise on here (that's not a dig as I include myself in that) we do not know what the answer is. We are just speculating and to be honest, hopefully all hoping that something will change it back for the better.
 
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Just a thought.

If we were on 10 points at Christmas and bottom of the league, who would sack the manager?

Leicester didn't sack their manager and they won something like 8/10 of the last games last season. They then sacked their manager after that great fun and they're now top of the league. Who would sack the manager after winning 8/10 games?

Who would have predicted that? It just shows how nuts football can be and no matter how simple the answers seem, they're not really simple or a few more of us would be professional football managers.
 
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The answers are not simple, but that doesn't mean doing nothing is the automatic right answer.

If we were in relegation trouble in late February it would be a tough decision. The risk would be huge whether you stuck with Koeman or not, and you couldn't be confident either way.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
The answers are not simple, but that doesn't mean doing nothing is the automatic right answer.

If we were in relegation trouble in late February it would be a tough decision. The risk would be huge whether you stuck with Koeman or not, and you couldn't be confident either way.
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I agree. I did say that I don't think we will be in threat of relegation but as you said, it is a risk either way.
 
Reminds me of when he was Benfica manager and what Portuguese friends and family said about him.

To be honest I don't think we'll be anywhere near relegation so not worried about that but we have played poorly virtually every week since beating Newcastle 4-0 last season. We suddenly just started scraping results and grinding through games. This season has just continued that run bar the odd good result.

I don't expect he will be sacked even though the man pictured on the left of this post was sacked after 2 glorious seasons.

My biggest fear is next season because Mane will be gone and even though Wanyama is playing badly he is probably still the best option. Without Mane at the moment we might as well sign the points over and not bother playing. Will need to be a stunning window next summer or we will be in trouble......and I think we will have a new manager in the summer too. Annoying that we didn't go for Ranieri when he was talked about after Adkins and after Poch. Was my favourite of the names being bandied about at the time.
 
fatletiss said:
This shows that it is not easy.

Do you really think Ron told the players to stop doing what was working (attacking wide)? Think about that calmly for a moment - the answer must be know unless Ron is some kind of fruit cake.

I believe we lost the game against united because the players stopped doing what was working. Old ground I know but Pelle for one literally spend 35 minutes of that second half walking.

I agree on Caulker, but I'm lead to believe he did ok when he came on as a sub against City three days before that game. Is that right? Reading in here and those that saw the game, they seem to say that. So let's take that a minute. Manager sends replacement CB on and he does well/ok but then doesn't play him in next game. I believe it was TinTin that said about Gazza that a player coming in and doing well should start the next game. Jose was injured, manager plays player who replaced him ok in previous game .... Is that really a bad decision? I don't think so (and I'm saying I prefer Yoshida) as it is a logical decision. Caulker was just awful.

In answer to your other post about relegation, I don't want us relegated but as you said, I don't think that will happen. We are in a bad run of results over the last 6 league games and we want that to turn around. I'd like us to stick with the manager as long as we don't really end up looking like being relegated as this club needs stability. We as fans moan because players leave and therefore we lose that stability - I can't see that changing when things go well. This leaves stability with the manager. If we have a poor season ( this may be it, but two wins suddenly changes that picture) then so be it. I can live with that. I forecast us to finish 12th but if it's 15th/16th, ok it happens. If we change the manager who is probably the highest profile manager we have had since Glen Hoddle, we then go through a whole knew set-up, risk of people settling in, players not liking or understanding the new manager or coaches and the gamble starts again.

It's not nice right now, however it's 6 games where we've got 1 point having won 20 points prior to that. This means it's not all bad.

The key thing for me is that despite all the expertise on here (that's not a dig as I include myself in that) we do not know what the answer is. We are just speculating and to be honest, hopefully all hoping that something will change it back for the better.
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Good post, Fats. We don't know what goes on in the background and I always think the knee-jerk of sacking the manager after a run of 6 or 7 games is crazy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - it's a gamble. As someone posted somewhere else, we're 2 points behind Everton and if we could grind out a result against Arsenal (and, much as I hope, I really don't see that happening) we'd move back up what is probably the most congested I've seen the PL in years. Ron will have given the players a roasting (I hope) and they need to turn up and remember how they can play on Boxing Day. What we're lacking at the moment is confidence and it doesn't help that some section of the fans (and I'm particularly talking about the twat about 3 rows behind me who spends all game bemoaning every Saints player playing the ball sideways or backwards, even if there's no-one in the clear) get on the players and give them no leeway. We've seen worse, we'll bring it back and we'll end up mid-table. I said before the season that I'd be happy with 12 - 15 ............ We're supporters, for God's sake, let's support and stop bickering.
 
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davecg69 said:
Good post, Fats. We don't know what goes on in the background and I always think the knee-jerk of sacking the manager after a run of 6 or 7 games is crazy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - it's a gamble. As someone posted somewhere else, we're 2 points behind Everton and if we could grind out a result against Arsenal (and, much as I hope, I really don't see that happening) we'd move back up what is probably the most congested I've seen the PL in years. Ron will have given the players a roasting (I hope) and they need to turn up and remember how they can play on Boxing Day. What we're lacking at the moment is confidence and it doesn't help that some section of the fans (and I'm particularly talking about the twat about 3 rows behind me who spends all game bemoaning every Saints player playing the ball sideways or backwards, even if there's no-one in the clear) get on the players and give them no leeway. We've seen worse, we'll bring it back and we'll end up mid-table. I said before the season that I'd be happy with 12 - 15 ............ We're supporters, for God's sake, let's support and stop bickering.
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In a funny kind of way, Arsenal could be the perfect team up next. No way they will do anything other than come and play their possession game and try and win the match. No sitting back. Might just be what we need.
 
fatletiss said:
In a funny kind of way, Arsenal could be the perfect team up next. No way they will do anything other than come and play their possession game and try and win the match. No sitting back. Might just be what we need.
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I'd much rather play Arsenal than someone like Bournemouth where we would be expected to win.
 
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I would rather be playing someone rubbish at home than arsenal. We are surely going to get our confidence knocked even further. A morale boosting victory against a Norwich/Sunderland/Newcastle side would be better, not a side in form like the gunners. I dread to think what Sanchez will do to Cedric/Fonte down our right. *shudders*
 
Osvaldorama said:
I would rather be playing someone rubbish at home than arsenal. We are surely going to get our confidence knocked even further. A morale boosting victory against a Norwich/Sunderland/Newcastle side would be better, not a side in form like the gunners. I dread to think what Sanchez will do to Cedric/Fonte down our right. *shudders*
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We played someone rubbish at home... we only got a draw! :emoticon-0107-sweat
 
I love football. It's not just the 90 minutes mud on boots that we watch every weekend but all the inbetween bits as well that makes this game so interesting - all the transfer speculation, managers ins and outs and the interaction and banter with fans. There is nothing quite like it.

It's note quite so nice trying to answer difficult questions about the club you love.

Many have said there are no easy answers and I completely agree. If I am honest I would not have sacked Pardew (after a 0-4 victory) and I wouldn't have sacked Adkins (after an impressive draw away to Chelsea). However in hindsight I can't say these were poor decisions as the club have gone from strength to strength and continually improved.

My own problem, being a saints supporter for near on 40 years are my own expectations for the club I love. Many of those 27 years in top flight football was about surviving but enjoyed every second of it.

The club now (quite rightly) have ambition and have built up over the last couple of seasons dreams of finishing in the top 4.

We are not having a bad season compared to many in the past but it falls short of the expectations we now have as fans.

Cliche time but I don't think we should look too far ahead and need to take one game at a time and do what we fans do best and support the club we love.

What will be, will be. Managers and players will come and go but if one things for sure, we will all still be here.

COYR
 
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Beefy said:
I think the proper thing to talk about is Saints policy of selling as soon as a good bid comes in. Then replacing with a cheaper player. Yes it is good we are becoming a self run club. But it is starting to **** us up a bit.
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Yes, its a tough balancing act which we aren't always going to get right. I think this is always going to be a source of frustration unfortunately.
 
tomw24 said:
The question needs to be asked now. We have been abysmal for 5 or 6 games and we are struggling to score goals badly. For me if we don't win by the time we play Palace in the cup and we get knocked out then we need to seriously consider changing the manager. There are viable options out there. I really like Ron as a person but I'm starting to doubt his managerial skills.
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I would wait until February, see what the Window produces and then let RonKo decide if he has the tools for job, sacking him now would be pre-emptive and not solve anything, who would be better than RonKo?
 
I have faith in Les Reed, as the leader of the footballing arm of the club, to:

A) Not panic
B) Be thoughtful about the situation
C) Make the right decisions
D) Influence the chairman/owner appropriately


But I agree, there really is no easy solution. We need something more, that much is evident.

However, I don't want us to get into being a 'hire and fire' club.

As someone else said, if this drags on for months, then maybe we will have to bring a new influence in.

I really hope it doesn't come to that because I'm a big fan of Koeman as a manager and, perhaps more importantly, as a personality.

I back him to turn it around and get quite some time yet.
 
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