Get ready for all this to escalate out of control, with our numpty politicians clueless and making it up as they go...................
Off Topic France under attack
- Thread starter ValleyGraduate12
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I just think sometimes we have to give the people making these decisions a little bit of credit. They will not have been taking lightly and they will be in possession of a lot more information than we have. Whether those decisions are made rightly or wrongly they have been made purely on the safety of our kin. Yes some wont agree but we all need to back what has been done and hope that it is the right one. Personally I agree with the air strikes, but who knows where we will be after this, but I just believe that all who voted for it done it in the belief that they are for the betterment of us.
But when will we get it right , this will be the fourth time now that we've attacked a middle eastern country the previous forays led to where we are now .Thank god there was a free vote in parliament at least that why no one can say they were forced to vote yea or nea
And that is why whether we like it or not we need to back them. To put it simplistically we don't like the decisions being made at our club. but we are not in a position to change them made at the top. I don't like what is happening but I back them. By the way I am not trying to compare the both but we have to stand behind those who are in more information than we are.
This is probably the first time we should invade ...........and don't.
The States had no problem losing 50,000 poor souls in Vietnam when they shouldn't have , and now when the cause is right ....no boots to be found.
The difference is now the USA have no draft /conscription losing in the Vietnam war made sure of that , neither has the UK .Out of the 27 EU member states, 21 already make do without conscription so unless theres a change in this and other EU countries policy of cutting the armed forces to the bone than recruitment is going to be an issue .So yet again we go into a war where the "boots" on the ground have to make do and mend as seen in previous conflicts ,Thats why I believe there is no planned strategy otherwise why the contradiction is cutting the force and then expecting us to be able to fight an enemy without the resources to back it up .
I always have supported if not the Government then definitely the armed forces when they're called upon .I've had many a heated discussion on here regarding the role of the Army certainly when defending my own experiences .I never supported Blairs decision to attack Iraq causing the second Gulf war and I'm dubious of any positive results coming from the latest developments in Syria.
On Question Time last night it was confirmed by the Tory MP that their vote was whipped.
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Don't worry, the USA will be working their socks off with anything related to oil supplies in Syria - http://theantimedia.org/how-the-war-in-syria-is-about-oil-not-isis/
Like I said, conspiracy websites and theories abound. This is a bit more reputable and shows that the U.S is going to be oil and gas self sufficient pretty soon.
http://www.pennenergy.com/articles/pennenergy/2014/11/deloitte-survey-us-will-become-oil-and-gas-self-sufficient.html
But keep believing everything you read on the Internet if it suits your West-loathing agenda.
“West loathing agenda?” The next thing you’ll be calling me is a terrorist sympathiser.
Neither is true. What is true is that you have an entrenched one dimensional view caused by too many years of reading the Daily Telegraph. Just because things ain’t mentioned in the Telegraph doesn’t mean they are conspiracy theories. You should try reading more of them – it may open you’re eyes to what’s really going on in the world.
Geat article you posted by the way (if true). It’ll mean the USA will have no longer have a reason to **** up in the Middle East.
I never said that Western intervention in the Middle East hasn't been anything but disastrous. PGF. It has. But all you seem to offer is history, advocating that we flagellate ourselves over our past. You offer no solutions. Remember that when the people in the Middle East have been given an opportunity, either through Western intervention or not they have gone on to royally **** it up. Egypt tried democracy numerous times and it failed spectacularly. That was nothing to do with the West. The Arab Spring has nothing to do with the West either and had **** all to do with borders created by the West in 1920. Yet how many countries where it has caught have made a success of it? One - Tunisia. The rest have all failed because of bloody in-fighting between religious sects and tribes. Syria is a case in point. People forget that this conflict actually started through a popular uprising by the people before it was hijacked. You can try to blame everything on the West but it's far more complex than that.
It's also forgotten that terrorism isn't a modern phenomenon. Radical Muslims hate us and always have. If you take a random year like 1996 - there were loads of terrorist attacks by radical islamists - well before 9/11 and our interventions in Iraq and Libya.
Awful dictators like Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad may be despicable arseholes but their countries didn't have a fraction of the problems they now have, and I agree that Western meddling was instrumental in causing the current problems - Bush and Blair should be tried for war crimes in my view. But constantly bitching at how awful we are and implying that ISIS have a cause as a result isn't helping to eradicate them.
Edit: I don't read newspapers.
It's also forgotten that terrorism isn't a modern phenomenon. Radical Muslims hate us and always have. If you take a random year like 1996 - there were loads of terrorist attacks by radical islamists - well before 9/11 and our interventions in Iraq and Libya.
Awful dictators like Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad may be despicable arseholes but their countries didn't have a fraction of the problems they now have, and I agree that Western meddling was instrumental in causing the current problems - Bush and Blair should be tried for war crimes in my view. But constantly bitching at how awful we are and implying that ISIS have a cause as a result isn't helping to eradicate them.
Edit: I don't read newspapers.
But that's just it. If there's bloody infighting in the Middle East don't get involved! Leave them to it. Leave them sort themselves out. Instead we continue to intervene, drop bombs on them, radicalising their youth and then we wonder why they send shooters to our cities.
It's time to get out and stay out.
I'm not stalking , I'm quietly preparing to protect .
Stalking is a one person event , everyone is on my radar
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So.....when gays are thrown off buildings; when young girls as young as 6 are sold off into sex slavery; when mass murders of older Muslim women take place and their bodies thrown in a mass grave never to be seen again; when men are gratuitously beheaded in front of children and their heads placed on spikes for everyone to see; when people try to flee ISIS they are beaten to death even if they are kids.....we walk away and "leave them to it". I'm sorry, no. Just no.
Regardless of how we got to this point we're here and the idea of doing nothing is a philosophy we cannot contemplate . The damage has been done and we're in a fight now whether we like it or not .
PGF is correct that Britain and now America have both caused more problems in the middle east than any other nation on earth, all for oil, and mineral resources, Britain under Empire days caused a pile of Geographical border issues between nations, not least Israel and Palestine, but having said that, I agree with Kifflom that you cannot stand by and allow these demonic Islamic murders carry on unchallenged, they need destroying completely.........