Not a Bad Performance

[Blunham Mackem]

Do you Blame him for that? He has a goal kick., the nearest Sunderland player is 45 yards from his position - what else is the keeper supposed to do? Fletcher won a lot in the air in the first half (awful lot more than Wickham did for them!) and I think Sam has told them to get the ball up there quickly rather than from the back - under Advocaat we tried passing it out from the back - it didn;t work. Under Di Canio and Poyet we tried passing it out from the back - it didn;t work except for short spells which lasted no more than 1 or 2 games. Maybe we need to be more direct.

You can;t blame a keeper for not going short if the boss is telling him to go long - or if his defenders (who are not the quickest) are not sticking around the box to receive a short pass - also, if he goes short against a team like Palace who had Wickham (who isn;t slow), Bolasie and Zaha to close down - you'#re surely better letting them have the ball in their half than 30 yards from our goal.

I'm not on about goal-kicks Marcus.

I'm on about occasions where we're under pressure, he's surrounded by players of both sides, but gets hold of the ball. He immediately hoofs it up to Fletcher who's on his own, surrounded by 3 or 4 players, one of whom wins the ball and 3 seconds later we're under pressure again. I mean, WTF? We haven't even had time to re-group.

 

[Lostinvegas]

I think we actually have a manager now who understands tactics. We played the right ones last night and won the game.

Where we are in the table I don't care how we win as long as we win. It's not pretty but it is effective.

It just shows how important Defoe is, he will get a goal every other game so as long as we keep clean sheets we are in with a chance of winning.

 

[Zlash]

I'm not on about goal-kicks Marcus.

I'm on about occasions where we're under pressure, he's surrounded by players of both sides, but gets hold of the ball. He immediately hoofs it up to Fletcher who's on his own, surrounded by 3 or 4 players, one of whom wins the ball and 3 seconds later we're under pressure again. I mean, WTF? We haven't even had time to re-group.

When Pants does take control of the ball he has to learn to fall onto it, give our players a chance to reposition and catch their breath. or get his head up and look for johnson or PVA who are usually crying out for it on the flanks. either, or, and nothing in between. it's my biggest gripe with him and I'd rather see Pickford getting a push for 1st team if Pants doesn't improve.

 

[Blunham Mackem]

When Pants does take control of the ball he has to learn to fall onto it, give our players a chance to reposition and catch their breath. or get his head up and look for johnson or PVA who are usually crying out for it on the flanks. either, or, and nothing in between. it's my biggest gripe with him and I'd rather see Pickford getting a push for 1st team if Pants doesn't improve.

This! Absolutely!!

I remember years ago, when Turnip was England manager, the whole pub seeming to scream at the tv everytime the goalie hoofed it upfield. The worst England team of all time!

 

[Nordic]

Wasn't the only one last night though Nordic - his first touch was woeful for most of the game but it didn't matter when he needed it. Do you think his touch was good last night prior to the goal?

I'm not sure what you mean by "wasn't the only one last night"? He wasn't the only one (with a bad touch?) - that I'd agree with. The most noticeable poor first touches were by Paddy, but I notice that more coz the guy frustrates me, even though he had a much better game - his focus needs to improve. I also thought Larsson was very shoddy last night and his poor first touch/decisions put us straight under pressure several times.

As for Jermain, I don't recall any specific incidents where I thought his first touch was so bad, it was worse than anyone else. Having just watched the highlights on me lunchbreak, I paid closer attention to Mr Defoe and his first touch...this is what I saw:

1. first touch was a knock-down for Fletcher - nice nod under pressure. Fletch should have hit the target.
2. second touch he takes Catts pass very well in the box, keeps ball close to body as he moves to shoot, but doesn't wrap his foot round it so a poor shot which misses the target - for me, he should have reversed it and played Fletch through.
3. forces a hesitant Dann to push the ball past the on-rushing keeper for an easy, first time touch tap-in.

Now I know this is only 10 minutes from a 90 minute game, including most of our best bits. But I don't see how this can result in his first touch being woeful for most of the game. Lot's of our players need to improve their first touch, or ping it around first time - there was one point they did that in a 5 min spell, in the first half, and I was mightily impressed. Confidence will bring this more into our game.

It would be interesting to see who has the best and worst touch over the season, under pressure - cue AJ jokes..........Bri, are these kind of stats available?

 

[Deleted #]

Wasn't the only one last night though Nordic - his first touch was woeful for most of the game but it didn't matter when he needed it. Do you think his touch was good last night prior to the goal?

I was coming along the A69 when this game was on so admittedly haven't seen the full game. According to the commentators though they were actually praising Defoe for his strength and holding the ball up for us, so I was surprised to see your comments but everybody sees the game different!

Is that 7 goals in 9 starts for Defoe now?

Surely there's not even a debate any more about who our main striker should be...

 

[rokerpier]

i have now put myself in the category that the missus knows more about footy than me no way i could see that coming. Last nights game was going to be a hard one and the only way i could see us getting a point was that palaces home form was crap and we may get a 0-0 point. well done the lads, cats dug in well and passed a few good balls forward and the young un was awesome running at their defence, the defence worked well together and the goal came from nowhere. i will take 3 points all day and keep the faith the missus got i right i had to do the dishes lol.

 

[dansafcman]

Do you Blame him for that? He has a goal kick., the nearest Sunderland player is 45 yards from his position - what else is the keeper supposed to do? Fletcher won a lot in the air in the first half (awful lot more than Wickham did for them!) and I think Sam has told them to get the ball up there quickly rather than from the back - under Advocaat we tried passing it out from the back - it didn;t work. Under Di Canio and Poyet we tried passing it out from the back - it didn;t work except for short spells which lasted no more than 1 or 2 games. Maybe we need to be more direct.

You can;t blame a keeper for not going short if the boss is telling him to go long - or if his defenders (who are not the quickest) are not sticking around the box to receive a short pass - also, if he goes short against a team like Palace who had Wickham (who isn;t slow), Bolasie and Zaha to close down - you'#re surely better letting them have the ball in their half than 30 yards from our goal.

Surely you are not denying that Pants has a crap distribution ? He is a good keeper but cant find his own players when he distributes the ball.

3 time out of 4 when he kicks the ball up the pitch it goes straight to an opposition player.

When Pants does take control of the ball he has to learn to fall onto it, give our players a chance to reposition and catch their breath. or get his head up and look for johnson or PVA who are usually crying out for it on the flanks. either, or, and nothing in between. it's my biggest gripe with him and I'd rather see Pickford getting a push for 1st team if Pants doesn't improve.

Trouble is, when Pants tries to kick it out to the flanks, it goes out of touch. accuracy aint his strong point. He needs to work on it, need him to be able to pick out the pass like this (yes I know, it isnt gonna work like that every time, but at least he manages to pick out a player and send an accurate kick out to him)

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[RLB's Beautiful Face]

2 best passes of the entire match came from Cattermole and M'Vila - the ball from M'Vila, where the sky commentator said "well M'Vila has overhit that" and it was perfectly into the path of PVA (I think) was one of the best passes you will see this season! Cattermole's through ball to PVA was also an excellent pass - but Cattermole can;t pass and only kicks players according to everyone else! He looks like he's getting back to the Cattermole we know and M'Vila and him are excellent together in there.

Bamford likes throwing himself to the ground mind doesn't he!

The only issue I had with Defoe was his touch - couldn't trap a bag of cement last night! But it was there when it mattered most!!

Catts played a great ball over the top for Defoe as well - great vision. Would have been through on goal if it weren't for an excellent interception from Dann I think it was?

Having said that I thought Larsson was our best CM actually last night - whenever Palace had the ball down our right flank Seb was ALWAYS there providing cover and making sure it came to nothing. I'm not sure whether it wsa Catts or M'Vila's job to be doing the same on the left but they weren't doing it - PVA was constantly left exposed. Luckily Palace's RB didn't push on too much so he wasn't left 2 on 1 too often.

 

[grimsby mackem]

It was a great performance, I have to admit I was a bit dubious when I saw us lining up with 3 centre half's but the 3 of them were immense and didn't give a decent palace attack as much as a sniff at goal all night and were backed up by a very solid goalkeeping display behind them. I thought that both full backs had a good game, if PVA had a bit more composure in the oppositions box he might of had an assist or 2 but I thought he did well to keep a handle on Zaha. The midfield 3 all put a good shift in defensively though I think both Catts and M'Villa outshone Larson when in possession, I can remember quite a few occasions where Larson put us under pressure with some slack play while the other 2 while guilty at times seemed more comfortable in possession and more able to play a decent ball forward. Defoe put a great shift in chasing lost causes and running the channels tirelessly all night and eventually won us the game from doing so, Fletch worked hard and won his share of headers and there seems to be a potentially decent partnership in the making there.

All of these positives creates a bit of a dilemma for us, we have quite a few decent players who just don't fit into this system(and surely we will be using it again after seeing it's success last night), Borini, Lens, Johnson and Watmore, it's hard to imagine how any of these will fit into this setup other than as an impact sub as was the case last night. We're looking at having our 4 most creative players sat on the bench and I can't imagine them being particularly chuffed with that.

 

[Brian Storm]

We're never going to set the world alight with our squad . But has been required for a while is showing since Sam came. Organisation, doing the small things right, fight and commitment. This is what will keep us up. The results are there to be ground out and we've got the man to do it. It's going to be long season with no guarantees but at least we know we've got fight to give so a chance. Sam has brought exactly what we thought he would

 

[Brian Storm]

I'm not sure what you mean by "wasn't the only one last night"? He wasn't the only one (with a bad touch?) - that I'd agree with. The most noticeable poor first touches were by Paddy, but I notice that more coz the guy frustrates me, even though he had a much better game - his focus needs to improve. I also thought Larsson was very shoddy last night and his poor first touch/decisions put us straight under pressure several times.

As for Jermain, I don't recall any specific incidents where I thought his first touch was so bad, it was worse than anyone else. Having just watched the highlights on me lunchbreak, I paid closer attention to Mr Defoe and his first touch...this is what I saw:

1. first touch was a knock-down for Fletcher - nice nod under pressure. Fletch should have hit the target.
2. second touch he takes Catts pass very well in the box, keeps ball close to body as he moves to shoot, but doesn't wrap his foot round it so a poor shot which misses the target - for me, he should have reversed it and played Fletch through.
3. forces a hesitant Dann to push the ball past the on-rushing keeper for an easy, first time touch tap-in.

Now I know this is only 10 minutes from a 90 minute game, including most of our best bits. But I don't see how this can result in his first touch being woeful for most of the game. Lot's of our players need to improve their first touch, or ping it around first time - there was one point they did that in a 5 min spell, in the first half, and I was mightily impressed. Confidence will bring this more into our game.

It would be interesting to see who has the best and worst touch over the season, under pressure - cue AJ jokes..........Bri, are these kind of stats available?

In a word no. And in more words no there isn't. It's an area one needs to aply their football knowlage and common sense.

I think every player took a bad touch last night. It's an area confidence and pressure affects a lot. Laast night we still looked like a team in fear on the ball, there's a lack of confidence and emence pressure. That win will make us feel a bit better on the ball, a win against Stoke could help trigger momentum and self beleif. Look a leicester. Confidence and mommentom has everything they touch turn to gold.

Fact is Defoe has made a career from useing his first touch to create space and score goals. He's got a decent touch over all but it will fluturate for the reasons i've highlighted. Like it will with any player.

Marcus doesn't rate Defoe so it's understandable he's overcritcale when he doesn't do something right and less likely to credit him when it's due. That's just human nature, weve all done it with players we don't rate.

 

[Blunham Mackem]

We're never going to set the world alight with our squad . But has been required for a while is showing since Sam came. Organisation, doing the small things right, fight and commitment. This is what will keep us up. The results are there to be ground out and we've got the man to do it. It's going to be long season with no guarantees but at least we know we've got fight to give so a chance. Sam has brought exactly what we thought he would

And I don't think we'll be disappointed at the end of the season. We might not be impressed with the level of entertainment but we'll be happy with the results.

 

[marcusblackcat]

Surely you are not denying that Pants has a crap distribution ? He is a good keeper but cant find his own players when he distributes the ball.

3 time out of 4 when he kicks the ball up the pitch it goes straight to an opposition player.



Trouble is, when Pants tries to kick it out to the flanks, it goes out of touch. accuracy aint his strong point. He needs to work on it, need him to be able to pick out the pass like this (yes I know, it isnt gonna work like that every time, but at least he manages to pick out a player and send an accurate kick out to him)

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Would Pickford find his own players when he has no one up there? A keepers distribution is only as good as the player he kicks the ball to. Pantilimon found touch once last night and that was only around a foot too high. Fletcher was found quite a lot in the first half by pants. Not exactly sure on the stats but showing that video is pointless. It's once he's done that and playing in a completely different team. If Pickford plays fir Sunderland and gets told to play the ball long, he'll play the ball long and if the players up there have a poor first touch or don't win the ball then he'll end up on the receiving end of the same criticisms. Just my opinion though

 

[Brian Storm]

Would Pickford find his own players when he has no one up there? A keepers distribution is only as good as the player he kicks the ball to. Pantilimon found touch once last night and that was only around a foot too high. Fletcher was found quite a lot in the first half by pants. Not exactly sure on the stats but showing that video is pointless. It's once he's done that and playing in a completely different team. If Pickford plays fir Sunderland and gets told to play the ball long, he'll play the ball long and if the players up there have a poor first touch or don't win the ball then he'll end up on the receiving end of the same criticisms. Just my opinion though

The problem for me is the length of time he takes to distribute it. He not confident enough for some reason but there must be half a dozzen times a game we can break from the keeper but he doesn't seem to have the balls. He darent throw it at all. He'd much rather wait let the opoanant get organised and reduce it to a 50\50. he does this every single time and it's not always the correct decision.

 

[marcusblackcat]

The problem for me is the length of time he takes to distribute it. He not confident enough for some reason but there must be half a dozzen times a game we can break from the keeper but he doesn't seem to have the balls. He darent throw it at all. He'd much rather wait let the opoanant get organised and reduce it to a 50\50. he does this every single time and it's not always the correct decision.

I agre mate but I do think that there's been a large number of times when the breaking player doesn't want it too. His confidence was shredded but maybe it's coming back now a little. I've seen him try what Pickford did but better defenders normally read it better and deal with it better. One thing is for certain, his shot stopping has improved of late and his confidence in that department too. But if Pickford had played in the same team this season that Pantilimon had, I wonder where his confidence would be!