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Sanj said:
These are are all past achievements, I mean Xavi has won every single trophy going and he is still playing, but nobody in their right mind would still call him world class. Rooney at his peak was arguably a world class player, but these days he is nowhere near world class when you compare him to the likes of Suarez,Aguero and Lewandowkski. Maybe the problem is your definition of a world class player, because you seem to play fast and loose with this term, when in truth only the truly elite footballers who are still performing at a high level can be called world class.

Rooney has been utterly dreadful at times this season, has the touch of a donkey and can't pass for ****, Man Utd fans were begging LVG to drop Rooney and they wanted to see Martial play through the middle. From 11 league starts the bloke has scored 2 goals this season, that is dreadful. Last season he scored 12 league goals from 33 starts. World class indeed.
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If I was describing Xavi's as a player of course I would use the term World Class. Even if with age he may no longer be one of the elite's.
Zidane for example will always be World Class. He has done enough to be deserving of the tag.

Also when discussing a players ability its not wise to focus purely on the present. Vardy for example is outscoring Diego Costa this term. Doesn't make him a better player.

Rooney has been poor this Season but he is clearly World Class talent. On this occasion I don't use the term lightly. ( also I don't agree with your comparisons at all considering Rooney has played as a CF/SS/WF and midfielder. When you take that into consideration 304 goals is a quality achievement.)
Rooney is one of the best players we have ever seen in the EPL. That's my honest opinion.
 
TheBear said:
If I was describing Xavi's as a player of course I would use the term World Class. Even if with age he may no longer be one of the elite's.
Zidane for example will always be World Class. He has done enough to be deserving of the tag.

Also when discussing a players ability its not wise to focus purely on the present. Vardy for example is outscoring Diego Costa this term. Doesn't make him a better player.

Rooney has been poor this Season but he is clearly World Class talent. On this occasion I don't use the term lightly. ( also I don't agree with your comparisons at all considering Rooney has played as a CF/SS/WF and midfielder. When you take that into consideration 304 goals is a quality achievement.)
Rooney is one of the best players we have ever seen in the EPL. That's my honest opinion.
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So now he is a world class talent and not a world class player, glad that is clear. Actually, I am confused, so are you saying that Rooney is still up there with the likes of Suarez and co or not?

Rooney might have played a few games in midfield when Fergie was ****ing around, but for the most part Rooney has played as a forward who was expected to score goals, the last time he managed to score over 20 league goals in a season was the 2011/12 season, nothing world class about that return.

We can also talk about Rooney's performances in major tournaments post 2004, and he has been pretty dreadful in every single one, scored an impressive one goal in three world cups for example, and also his performances were utterly shocking, 2010 being the worst. Oh and Rooney is not even the top 10 players to play in the PL, maybe top 20.
 
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Let's hope Santi can start finishing like that for us again !
 
TheBear said:
If I was describing Xavi's as a player of course I would use the term World Class. Even if with age he may no longer be one of the elite's.
Zidane for example will always be World Class. He has done enough to be deserving of the tag.

Also when discussing a players ability its not wise to focus purely on the present. Vardy for example is outscoring Diego Costa this term. Doesn't make him a better player.

Rooney has been poor this Season but he is clearly World Class talent. On this occasion I don't use the term lightly. ( also I don't agree with your comparisons at all considering Rooney has played as a CF/SS/WF and midfielder. When you take that into consideration 304 goals is a quality achievement.)
Rooney is one of the best players we have ever seen in the EPL. That's my honest opinion.
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You're making so many stipulations for what your own definition of 'world class' means that you're making it a completely worthless term.

Zidane is NOT currently a world class football player.

Rooney is NOT clearly currently a world class talent.

Your logic is inherently flawed. You're basically saying that you can't bash Rooney EVER for being picked for England because he's scored 300+ goals regardless of age or form? So essentially as long as Rooney is still alive he can't be bashed for playing for England? So Rooney should still be playing for us until he literally dies aged 90?

This is Rooney's 14th consecutive full season of football playing mostly as a striker. He's scored 172 league goals in that time. Only twice in those 14 seasons has he got over 20 league goals. He WAS a very good footballer. He was NEVER world class. He is now nowhere near good enough for a team in the CL such as United.

Can't you see that your bandying around of the term 'world class' for so many players makes it a worthless term?
 
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Also if rooney wasnt on 300k a week united would have sold him but they can't find anyone willing to pay his wages
 
Class is permanent imo. Rooney for me has never been WC. WC class players only get slowed down by age. Their minds are still doing incredible things which their bodies sometimes can't produce. This is why Ryan Giggs gets in the WC bracket in my estimation. When you speed is gone, are intelligent enough to adapt your game and still make things happen? You can be a great athlete and power past people with your physical advantage, but are you effective without these? I'm not impressed with medals, stats and clubs on a players resume. You can tell class when you see it. At Arsenal we have been privileged to have some WC players in our attack. Henry, Bergkamp and Kanu (his dubious age and health issues even makes him more impressive).

For me class is in football intelligence. This is where it'll be interesting to see how CR7 and Messi do when they start to age. I believe Messi has an edge on him in intelligence. Players can put up big numbers all they want but real class is permanent.
 
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I agree that medals aren't a good barometer to measure world class talent - I mean Wes Brown has won huge amounts of medals but would you call him World Class? While Joe Hart, RVP and Matt Le Tissier were/are much better than him but won much, much less, and in Le Tissiers case won nothing at all, but it doesn't detract from his class, just the team he happened to play for at the time.
 
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Smirnoffpriest said:
I agree that medals aren't a good barometer to measure world class talent - I mean Wes Brown has won huge amounts of medals but would you call him World Class? While Joe Hart, RVP and Matt Le Tissier were/are much better than him but won much, much less, and in Le Tissiers case won nothing at all, but it doesn't detract from his class, just the team he happened to play for at the time.
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Le Tissier was a genius. Naturally gifted footballer. I think it was Xavi who said he watched Le Tiss closely growing up.
There are a lot player who I put in the WC bracket who didn't necessarily win the 'top' prizes. Ronaldinho waxes lyrical about Jay Jay Okocha and for good reasons. The man was a wizard with a football. Zanetti, the Inter legend was WC! Riquelme was incredible. Seedorf (although very decorated) was truly special.

Rooney is overrated, Roberto Carlos overrated, Michael Owen overrated, RVN overrated... Might sound like blasphemy but for me they were not great footballers. They just had impressive stats.
 
blukyt said:
Le Tissier was a genius. Naturally gifted footballer. I think it was Xavi who said he watched Le Tiss closely growing up.
There are a lot player who I put in the WC bracket who didn't necessarily win the 'top' prizes. Ronaldinho waxes lyrical about Jay Jay Okocha and for good reasons. The man was a wizard with a football. Zanetti, the Inter legend was WC! Riquelme was incredible. Seedorf (although very decorated) was truly special.

Rooney is overrated, Roberto Carlos overrated, Michael Owen overrated, RVN overrated... Might sound like blasphemy but for me they were not great footballers. They just had impressive stats.
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Rooney's is an interesting case, he was truly special when he first burst onto the scene but struggled to take it to the next level of WC. This was highlighted more when Ronaldo emerged into an unstoppable force for manure, he failed to come out of his shadow. A truly WC player can play with fellow WC players and be noticed, I think Rooney almost vanished when Ronaldo was killing it. Look at Barca and Real, both have the two best players in the world yet the other players stand out too. Barca with Messi and without Messi are great, that's because they have two other truly great players in Suarez and Neymar. Same with Bale, Benzema and Rodrigez...
 
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SAF didn't name Rooney as one of WC players he'd managed - so that's good enough for me. He wasn't WC. But at times, he was close. And his goalscoring record is impressive considering he hasn't often been the central striker, usually playing the #10 role and at times out wide. Of those PL strikers with a similar number of goals as him, how many can match his assists or his tracking back or workrate generally? I've seen him be the last defender at times.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
SAF didn't name Rooney as one of WC players he'd managed - so that's good enough for me. He wasn't WC. But at times, he was close. And his goalscoring record is impressive considering he hasn't often been the central striker, usually playing the #10 role and at times out wide. Of those PL strikers with a similar number of goals as him, how many can match his assists or his tracking back or workrate generally? I've seen him be the last defender at times.
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Bobby Charlton wasn't exactly a Centre Forward either. Longevity got Rooney his goal records, his achievement is staying in the team (Utd and England)
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
^
More PL goals by the age of 30 than Shearer. There might be other factors to consider
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And Shearer was injured for much of the 92/93 season. Rooney at 30 has played 418 club games. Shearer played only a 140 games more up to the age of nearly 36. Had he avoided injury like Rooney has more or less, he's have set the England record for Rooney to try to emulate.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
^
More PL goals by the age of 30 than Shearer. There might be other factors to consider
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Yup and he's played at least 40-50% of his career outwide or in the No.10.

For me Rooney is undoubtedly World Class. He is capable of the truly spectacular, I would agree that he could have done more with his ability but as a talent he is definitely World Class.

Scored a quality goal again tonight.
 
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