Bloody hell... another myth started. I can't believe this is even getting airtime So let me get this right now, the common problems we've encountered in our attack against the likes of Swansea, Newcastle, CSKA, City, PSV, Arsenal, Middlesborough, Palace, even Tottenham and Villa are all Mata and Herrera's fault. You know what's so riling, is that these are two bloody good players, doing their best under difficult circumstances and deserve more credit than the unwarranted criticism they're receiving. We should be absolutely ****ting ourselves they don't leave in January!! Bcos you know what, if the manager doesn't value them, and neither do our fans, I wouldn't blame them
Its also the reason van Gaals teams have won a good number of medals over the years too. Fergie certainly had more faith in them though. I bet van Gaal still has nightmares about the start of last season and I commented last season about how this has affected his plans but I think he's starting to trust them a little more now. I think he's quite pleased with how the majority are now performing. I don't think he's pleased with the attack at all. In fact he comments about it all the time.
Where the hell did I say it was all Herrera's fault? Nowhere. I said, many times that a large number of our attack is out of form. There's no consistency from any bar Martial.
Let me put my opinion out there, I agree with much of what both you and Treble say but not all with either. I think LvG had a very big job when he came, rebuilding the squad and getting some kind of "style/identity" into the team, he has done this and put us back on the right track after the disaster that was Moyes. He has reached a stage where the players now know what is required of them and we "control" almost every game we play and rarely look like losing. Now is the time to let the players off the leash, they know their job and how to control a game, they need to be allowed the freedom to express themselves and attack with the flair and skill we know they possess. In short, LvG is doing a great job but needs to lighten up and trust his players more.
I agree. The one thing I would add is that the players, the attacking ones specifically, need to trust themselves too. Let's say for a second, he does tell them to be safe and never take risks. Why would they listen? If they are being told not to express themselves then they would be unhappy and unhappy players dont care if they play. Or they would just take risks anyway in spite of the manager. They get paid whether they play or not so what do they have to lose. As Treble put it, who would blame them if they left?
BTW the message that thousands of United fans chanting "Attack Attack Attack" isn't to Herrera and Mata. I know you want to give him the benefit of the doubt Diego but he's been far from great. He's rebuilt a squad. Considering the club and its reputation and the money spent, he's done what anyone could do, even Moyes. I don't think it's fair to slate Moyes who was never given the same opportunity to build said squad. Re: controlling the game, I'm not so sure. I think we dominate possession, but we don't dominate games. We are hard to score against so I'll given him credit for that, but I think you're mistaking oppositions allowing us to hold the ball in front of them as control, when it's not. He will never let the players off the leash I'm afraid. There isn't a smidgen of evidence to suggest otherwise. His philosophy is simply - work the ball until there's an opening. That is a philosophy totally dependent on the opposition. It's a reactive philosophy rather than a proactive one. He's afraid of losing, then sits on the bench scratching his head wondering why we're not winning.
People keep saying we need a striker. Well yes maybe we do, but don't forget ROONEY MUST PLAY according to lvg. What we really need the most is a right winger. It's a shame a club as big as united don't even have a single decent right winger. That is embarrassing. We need someone who can run with the ball in a counter attack situation. I say get Mane now.
Maybe we should have signed Pedro for that position? I bet he wishes we had! I do. Playing fantasy football, two players who I think would transform our fortunes in an instant are Marco Reus (*disclaimer - not sure of his preferred side*) and Thomas Muller. Not likely to happen in January though so I really would just prefer van Gaal sticks Martial up front, Mata at 10 and Herrera on the right for the rest of the season instead of chucking even more money at it. For me, Young would be on the left. This is also based on the (correct) assumption that he wants two central DM's, who I would like to see Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger cement a partnership. Carrick is surely playing out his final season sadly. I happen to think Herrera alongside one of those with an actual wider attacking player on the right is not too scary a prospect but very much doubt van Gaal has the nuts to go with that.
I think most of us are baffled by the fact that we are much stronger defensively and yet so poor on the attacking front. To LVG it seems you can't have both. The defence is solid because the overall game is cautious and because we don't lose the ball in dangerous areas and we don't all attack at once. Because we are solid in defence and cautious about losing the ball, we create fewer chances to score. In the last few seasons, how many times have we seen the best attack is associated with the poorest defence? The RS with the Rat was a good example. As long as we have LVG, we'll never have 20 scoring chances and 7-5 scores. That is also why I thought that 3-0 in 25 minutes at the Emirates was an aberration. And that episode could have even confirmed in his mind that his cautious system is the right one. Do we want exciting football with us attacking with 6 men in the opposing penalty area but vulnerable to a counter? Losing matches 3-2 and 4-3. I too miss the flamboyant Fergie football but remember it took him 6 years to build it. You simply need to have the right players to play that type of football. I am expecting the next manager to do it as I do not see LVG to even come close in the next 18 months.
A good defence and a potent attack are not mutually exclusive, we've had this combination many, many times in the past. The fact is, we DO have a decent attack. It's putting them to work which is the problem.
Yes of course. In Fergie's teams. Moyes's attacking formations were not very solid defensively were they? One goodish (4th place just) does not mean we are out of the woods. Flamboyant but losing football is not on LVG's agenda.
I know fine well we're not out of the woods. Moyes's team is irrelevant, he didn't even get a full season from which to form a decent defence to base an attack on. van Gaal is well into his second full term and we should now be attacking with far more pace and fluency.
I would like to see that too. LVG's first priority is not to lose the ball and to keep possession at all cost. That is not consistent with pace because you are more likely to lose the ball instead of a slow passing game. He needs players who can change pace in an instant: Shaw and Martial and Depay (when he is on form). Shame that Shaw is injured and Depay has lost form.
Including goals and points unfortunately. Anyway, who's doing the nil nil draw thread for tomorrow night?
Has he ever had any real form in the PL? That's a serious question, not a dig (you bitter nob jockey). I know he's had the odd game that he's looked decent. But I think the jump up to the PL has really been difficult for him so far, time will tell whether he's good enough for a team like Utd. But the early signs aren't great - are they? Put it this way, he's certainly no Suarez. Taking into account they both lit up the Dutch league and made the step up to the PL. The reality is the Dutch league is very, very poor in comparison. It will be interesting to see what happens. Reading this thread - I think you should give 'Chief' the managers job!!
Suarez was 24 when he moved to Liverpool. Depay is 21. I think he'll be fine, he has the raw talent. He needs more fine tuning on the training pitch and for all the criticism LVG deservedly gets, he's a good manager to be overseeing that.
