We had Back to the Future day during the week and now we have back to the past day. 600 years ago to be precise.
Kilburn I'm sure will oblige with some graphics
Kilburn I'm sure will oblige with some graphics
Off Topic Battle of Agincourt
- Thread starter Swords Hoopster.
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We had Back to the Future day during the week and now we have back to the past day. 600 years ago to be precise.
Kilburn I'm sure will oblige with some graphics
If this is going to become a common theme on our forum, then I can't wait for Easter next year. Especially on here.
We had Back to the Future day during the week and now we have back to the past day. 600 years ago to be precise.
Kilburn I'm sure will oblige with some graphics
In recognition of my mate, Taffvalerowdy:-
It was common for longbow archers to taunt their enemy by holding up their two fingers. Illustration: Welsh longbow archer at the Battle of Agincourt.
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The Welsh archers played a prominent part in the battle. Although the Brits were outnumbered by 4-1 ( 20,000 French, 5,000 British ) by the French, they were unprepared for the bombardment of the innovative longbows that had a range of 250 yards. The archers even covered the tips of their arrows in beeswax to help pass through the armour of the French Knights.
Just one for the history buffs Ninesy. I always knew it as where the two fingered salute came from.
In purely military terms it was some feat by the English (& Welsh).
In purely military terms it was some feat by the English (& Welsh).
Its a great story. Funny the way it lasted as a gesture for 600 years. Although I think it has been supplanted in the last 20 years or so with this: 
.
You know where that one came from or is it just a simplified version of the two finger one?
.You know where that one came from or is it just a simplified version of the two finger one?
It came from our opponents because we normally lose 2-1Its a great story. Funny the way it lasted as a gesture for 600 years. Although I think it has been supplanted in the last 20 years or so with this:
You know where that one came from or is it just a simplified version of the two finger one?
Its a great story. Funny the way it lasted as a gesture for 600 years. Although I think it has been supplanted in the last 20 years or so with this:
You know where that one came from or is it just a simplified version of the two finger one?
I thought I knew what it meant and it's origin, but I'm afraid to say it. I thought it originally dated back centuries.
It's been supplanted by an emoticon poking himself in the eye???Its a great story. Funny the way it lasted as a gesture for 600 years. Although I think it has been supplanted in the last 20 years or so with this:
You know where that one came from or is it just a simplified version of the two finger one?
I think that one dates back to Greek mythology where ancient sailors used to mock the Cyclops by gesturing that they could rid themselves of vision in one eye whereas the other couldn't.
I'm not sure how PC that would be these days?
I'd swear I've seen this on tv before ................ now where was it, ............... the House of Commons or maybe Parliament House in Canberra, Australia.
Various fanciful explanations attribute it to English peasant archers expressing defiance towards French knights.
A commonly repeated legend claims that the two-fingered salute or V sign derives from a gesture made by longbowmen fighting in the English and Welsh[33] army at the Battle of Agincourt (1415) during the Hundred Years' War.
According to the story, the French were in the habit of cutting off the arrow-shooting fingers of captured English and Welsh longbowmen, and the gesture was a sign of defiance on the part of the bowmen, showing the enemy that they still had their fingers,[23][34] or, as a widespread pun puts it, that they could still “pluck yew”. The longbow story is of unknown origin, but the “pluck yew” pun is thought to be a definitively false etymology that seems to originate from a 1996 email that circulated the story.[35]
Such an explanation is illustrated in the graphic novel Crécy (published 2007), where the English author Warren Ellis imagined "The Longbowman Salute" being used even earlier, in 1346, by English archers toward the retreating French knights after the Battle of Crécy. In this story the lower-class longbowmen in the English Army used the sign as a symbol of their anger and defiance against the French-speaking upperclass, who had since the Norman conquest of England in 1066 subjugated the English people. However, that is a work of fiction.
The bowman etymology is unlikely, since no evidence exists of French forces (or any other continental European power) cutting off the fingers of captive bowmen; the standard procedure at the time was to summarily execute all enemy commoners captured on the battlefield (regardless of whether they were bowmen, foot soldiers or merely unarmed auxiliaries) since they had no ransom value, unlike the nobles whose lives could be worth thousands of florins apiece. Also, the war-bows of the time, with a draw weight of around 100lb, would certainly have required all three fingers.
A commonly repeated legend claims that the two-fingered salute or V sign derives from a gesture made by longbowmen fighting in the English and Welsh[33] army at the Battle of Agincourt (1415) during the Hundred Years' War.
According to the story, the French were in the habit of cutting off the arrow-shooting fingers of captured English and Welsh longbowmen, and the gesture was a sign of defiance on the part of the bowmen, showing the enemy that they still had their fingers,[23][34] or, as a widespread pun puts it, that they could still “pluck yew”. The longbow story is of unknown origin, but the “pluck yew” pun is thought to be a definitively false etymology that seems to originate from a 1996 email that circulated the story.[35]
Such an explanation is illustrated in the graphic novel Crécy (published 2007), where the English author Warren Ellis imagined "The Longbowman Salute" being used even earlier, in 1346, by English archers toward the retreating French knights after the Battle of Crécy. In this story the lower-class longbowmen in the English Army used the sign as a symbol of their anger and defiance against the French-speaking upperclass, who had since the Norman conquest of England in 1066 subjugated the English people. However, that is a work of fiction.
The bowman etymology is unlikely, since no evidence exists of French forces (or any other continental European power) cutting off the fingers of captive bowmen; the standard procedure at the time was to summarily execute all enemy commoners captured on the battlefield (regardless of whether they were bowmen, foot soldiers or merely unarmed auxiliaries) since they had no ransom value, unlike the nobles whose lives could be worth thousands of florins apiece. Also, the war-bows of the time, with a draw weight of around 100lb, would certainly have required all three fingers.
I am ashamed of myself - I knew about the Magna Carta (800 years on June 15), and Waterloo (200 years on June 18) but I didn't know about Agincourt being 600 years ago. A great victory and as a British history fan, I shoulda known
And next year we will have the 950th anniversary of the Battle of Hastings. As a schoolboy at the time I remember the celebrations of the 900th anniversary in 1966. We actually visited the site at Battle that October as a one-off school trip and I remember quite a few of us having our own 'battle' in the mud...
I'm sure most on here will be surprised at this coming from me, but the English army were quite possibly not as outnumbered as portrayed. A lot of historians now believe that the English exaggerated the numbers to make the victory look even better. Many now believe that the numbers were pretty even, but the superior fire power of the English archers and their tactical position on the battle field were the major factors.
Just for balance...............I should add that it must be very tough to be French, having lost so many battles and wars throughout history.
I read that the French are also celebrating Agincourt as they reckon the bloke who established the legendary (?!) discipline of the gendarmerie was in charge of something there. Much like they have been celebrating Waterloo on the grounds that Napoleon was the star of the battle. Brace yourself for stereotypes......