Jobs for the Boys
- Thread starter Zlash
- Start date
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There could be another twist to this @BB-8
If Sam comes in he might want his own staff with him. Jobs for his own boys as it were.
Wouldn`t that put the cat among the pigeons
if they have a good working relationship why not bring them with you? - it happens in most managerial appointments and makes a degree of sense. eg. Eric black goes everywhere with Bruce, and look how poor O'Neill was without his number 2, ditto Dick this year.
First and foremost they have to be able to do a good job. It could be debated the Congerton/Houston combo isn't working in the transfer market. I think Pants has been poor this year - coincides with Tucker's appointment. Dickman/McNamee have a hidden connection which, by some accounts, goes deeper than just the two of them and includes their missus' and their friends.
Someone in the club needs to get ahold of this and make sure it's not to the teams detriment. If not then no problem but I remain to be convinced it doesn't have any impact whatsoever.
Good post mate! Though I'm mortally offended that you don't consider the sauce on a bacon sarny to be a serious matter.
It's what made this country great!
Absolutely. I made that point somewhere else.
Can`t see the whole gang coming in just for a few months though. It would have to be long term for that to happen surely.
It depends entirely on what Sam wants and what Ellis will give.
It`s going to be interesting bacause, atm, it looks as if Sam holds all the aces.
Thats another good point when looking at Big Sam. Who's generally his number2? Does he have one? If so, where is he now and would he come for a short term contract?
I think his assistant last season is manager of Blackpool and his first team coach is manager of Leyton Orient. Not sure if that`s the right way round. Can`t see them coming if it`s short term though.
If it`s long term he might want them, scouts, youths, the lot.
Hey, if I want to be all rogue and pioneer putting mustard on my bacon sarnie I will not be swayed.Good post mate! Though I'm mortally offended that you don't consider the sauce on a bacon sarny to be a serious matter.
It's what made this country great!
Maybe that's what keeps me thin....?
Hey, if I want to be all rogue and pioneer putting mustard on my bacon sarnie I will not be swayed.
Maybe that's what keeps me thin....?
Hope SA sorts these many problems out - his attention to detail and organisation are going to be a shock for many at club - I think Ellis Short is starting (at long last) to get the right set up ..........hopefully
That 'moneyball' system has turned U.S. baseball on it's head. There is, as you say, a Danish football/soccer team using it now and they're second in their division, having just been promoted. It would be senseless for us to ignore achievements like that. The bottom line is Sunderland are not going to win anything in the next 30-50 years unless we try some form of different thinking. If Ellis announced this in the next 12 months, I wouldn't oppose it. Well, we're going nowhere fast without it, are we?
Well that system's on hold for now mate. Big Sam will do it his way! His way or the highway!
Tripe from start to finish. Our yearly losses have been steadily reducing. So let's ditch that. The problems we are "riddled with from top to bottom" don't seem to be affecting either the Development team or the Ladies team, both of which are riding high in their divisions. So let's ditch top to bottom. Our owner won over the fans by buying out Drumaville and saving us from a fate similar to that of the Irish economy. The fact that he wears a lapel badge is pretty small beer compared to that. So let's ditch that. The "scraps he chucked Advocaat" have never been specified by anyone on this board (or anywhere else outside the club) so please state us a figure from your superior sources or else let's drop your empty guesses. The two signings Short "vetoed" this summer have never been heard of anywhere other than in Manchester, so would you mind please telling us who they were? Either that, or let's drop your totally empty accusations.
Juan, I've always liked your posts before, but this is by far the most uninformed, condescending heap of junk I've ever seen from you. Hardly a single sentence stands up to factual analysis.
Not pressing any time scale, mate. God knows, Sam has earned the credentials to be trusted. If Sam's the next idea we try, I hope to hell it succeeds - I'm 100% behind him. But don't let's ditch all other systems because that places us in a cul-de-sac. Let's not close our minds to anything - that's all I'm saying. The 'moneyball' system seems to get results in certain circumstances, so let's take a serious look into that, yeah? It's another option, and we need all we can get.
Moneyball system explained
It was enough to make those football pundits who revel in the old days and old ways collectively choke on their beans and sausages. Brentford would, a club statement announced, be parting company with their respected manager Mark Warburton, switching to a continental structure with a head coach and sporting director, and using mathematical modelling to help recruit players. The response of one former professional, Micky Quinn, was not untypical. “They want a head coach and mathematical modelling … Ha, ha, good luck with that.”
What Quinn may not realise is that the blueprint for Brentford’s future is already being stress-tested 800 miles away at FC Midtjylland, who lead Denmark’s Superliga by six points and are on course for the first trophy in their history. And who is the majority shareholder in Midtjylland? Matthew Benham, the former hedge fund manager and professional gambler who also owns Brentford.
When Benham invested £6.2m in Midtjylland last July he appointed Rasmus Ankersen – a 31-year-old former player, Uefa A-licence coach, entrepreneur and author – as the chairman. Ankersen promised to challenge the conventional ways of running a football club and to put Midtjylland on the map. He is doing just that. “When I am being provocative I tell people that our coach, Glen Riddersholm, will never be sacked based on our league position,” Ankersen says. Instead Ankersen tells him he will be judged on whether he achieves certain key performance indicators (KPIs) which, over the long term, the club believes are more indicative of success.
Ankersen won’t reveal everything about the club’s use of data, but does say that Midtjylland pay particular attention to what he calls “dangerous situations” in games. Interestingly, they are a client of E4talent, which tracks shots in the “danger zone” – an area that stretches from the start of the six-yard box to the edge of the penalty area – from which 77% of Premier League goals are scored.
Set pieces are another focus. Midtjylland have scored 15 goals from set pieces from 17 games, an average of 0.88 per game, the second highest in Europe. Only Atlético Madrid, with an average of 1.04 a game, are more prolific. The highest in the Premier League are Arsenal with 15 in 26 games, an average of 0.57.
Data also informs what Midtjylland’s coaches say to the players and the press. As Ankersen explains, at half-time the coaches are sent texts before they speak to players outlining how the team are measuring up to certain key metrics. “These effective KPIs give a more accurate message to the players and the press,” he insists.
Too often in football, the result determines the narrative – for managers, reporters and fans. Ankersen dismisses this as facile. “For instance, when we played at home against the bottom team, we won 2-1,” he says. “But our model massively downgraded us because we were super lucky. A lot of people said well done but it was a terrible performance – that is the message we should convey. No one wants to say they were lucky when they win. But in football success turns luck into genius.”
Midtjylland’s success is also partly down to their excellent youth academy, which Ankersen helped get off the ground a decade ago: usually five or six starters in their games are home-grown. The emergence of the Danish under-21 international Pione Sisto, who has been linked with many top sides in Europe, is another factor. But using mathematical modelling as well as traditional scouting has helped the club acquire players they believe are undervalued, including Kris Olsson from Arsenal, Marco Ureña from Kuban Krasnodar and Jim Larsen from Club Brugge.
This is fascinating, radical stuff, and it is driven by Benham. Ankersen remembers that when he met him, he asked him whether Brentford would get promoted from League One. “From a football guy you would expect a yes or no, or an answer with emotion,” he says. “But he just looked at me and said: ‘There is a 42.3% chance that we will go up.’ I knew then he thought very differently about football.”
Of course he does. Benham has made fortunes betting on football, but he has not done it by following the sheep who place long-odds accumulators and trust in blind luck. Instead he has developed a deeper understanding about why teams win matches, constructed statistical models and used them to exploit inefficiencies and errors in bookmaker prices.
Can such a data-driven approach really be applied to running a football club? We are about to find out. But it seems perfectly reasonable to expect that by taking advantage of inefficiencies in the transfer market and elsewhere, adopting the best practice of clubs such as Southampton and employing super-smart data analysts, Brentford and Midtjylland can punch further above their weight. Ankersen certainly has no doubts. “In the past year I have learned that the brightest guys in football work in the betting industry, because they are much more rational and less biased,” he says.
None of us know what will happen next. But we can say this. Brentford and Midtjylland are clearly going the right way and their stories over the next few years will make fascinating viewing. And while Benham has taken some flak in recent days, history teaches us that in the long run it is unwise to bet against him.
It was enough to make those football pundits who revel in the old days and old ways collectively choke on their beans and sausages. Brentford would, a club statement announced, be parting company with their respected manager Mark Warburton, switching to a continental structure with a head coach and sporting director, and using mathematical modelling to help recruit players. The response of one former professional, Micky Quinn, was not untypical. “They want a head coach and mathematical modelling … Ha, ha, good luck with that.”
What Quinn may not realise is that the blueprint for Brentford’s future is already being stress-tested 800 miles away at FC Midtjylland, who lead Denmark’s Superliga by six points and are on course for the first trophy in their history. And who is the majority shareholder in Midtjylland? Matthew Benham, the former hedge fund manager and professional gambler who also owns Brentford.
When Benham invested £6.2m in Midtjylland last July he appointed Rasmus Ankersen – a 31-year-old former player, Uefa A-licence coach, entrepreneur and author – as the chairman. Ankersen promised to challenge the conventional ways of running a football club and to put Midtjylland on the map. He is doing just that. “When I am being provocative I tell people that our coach, Glen Riddersholm, will never be sacked based on our league position,” Ankersen says. Instead Ankersen tells him he will be judged on whether he achieves certain key performance indicators (KPIs) which, over the long term, the club believes are more indicative of success.
Ankersen won’t reveal everything about the club’s use of data, but does say that Midtjylland pay particular attention to what he calls “dangerous situations” in games. Interestingly, they are a client of E4talent, which tracks shots in the “danger zone” – an area that stretches from the start of the six-yard box to the edge of the penalty area – from which 77% of Premier League goals are scored.
Set pieces are another focus. Midtjylland have scored 15 goals from set pieces from 17 games, an average of 0.88 per game, the second highest in Europe. Only Atlético Madrid, with an average of 1.04 a game, are more prolific. The highest in the Premier League are Arsenal with 15 in 26 games, an average of 0.57.
Data also informs what Midtjylland’s coaches say to the players and the press. As Ankersen explains, at half-time the coaches are sent texts before they speak to players outlining how the team are measuring up to certain key metrics. “These effective KPIs give a more accurate message to the players and the press,” he insists.
Too often in football, the result determines the narrative – for managers, reporters and fans. Ankersen dismisses this as facile. “For instance, when we played at home against the bottom team, we won 2-1,” he says. “But our model massively downgraded us because we were super lucky. A lot of people said well done but it was a terrible performance – that is the message we should convey. No one wants to say they were lucky when they win. But in football success turns luck into genius.”
Midtjylland’s success is also partly down to their excellent youth academy, which Ankersen helped get off the ground a decade ago: usually five or six starters in their games are home-grown. The emergence of the Danish under-21 international Pione Sisto, who has been linked with many top sides in Europe, is another factor. But using mathematical modelling as well as traditional scouting has helped the club acquire players they believe are undervalued, including Kris Olsson from Arsenal, Marco Ureña from Kuban Krasnodar and Jim Larsen from Club Brugge.
This is fascinating, radical stuff, and it is driven by Benham. Ankersen remembers that when he met him, he asked him whether Brentford would get promoted from League One. “From a football guy you would expect a yes or no, or an answer with emotion,” he says. “But he just looked at me and said: ‘There is a 42.3% chance that we will go up.’ I knew then he thought very differently about football.”
Of course he does. Benham has made fortunes betting on football, but he has not done it by following the sheep who place long-odds accumulators and trust in blind luck. Instead he has developed a deeper understanding about why teams win matches, constructed statistical models and used them to exploit inefficiencies and errors in bookmaker prices.
Can such a data-driven approach really be applied to running a football club? We are about to find out. But it seems perfectly reasonable to expect that by taking advantage of inefficiencies in the transfer market and elsewhere, adopting the best practice of clubs such as Southampton and employing super-smart data analysts, Brentford and Midtjylland can punch further above their weight. Ankersen certainly has no doubts. “In the past year I have learned that the brightest guys in football work in the betting industry, because they are much more rational and less biased,” he says.
None of us know what will happen next. But we can say this. Brentford and Midtjylland are clearly going the right way and their stories over the next few years will make fascinating viewing. And while Benham has taken some flak in recent days, history teaches us that in the long run it is unwise to bet against him.
From my little bit of knowledge re SA - this moneyball organisation structure is not too far removed from his scientific organisational methods and attention to detail
Put your nappy back on old man, you talk the talk as if you are an insider, the same **** you spew to your fellow supporters about Darren Bent, all you do is spin yarn after yarn about how simplified things are in your own little visions, well, good for you Relic. If you don't like my point of view then fair do's but the signs are there and you've got no evidence to refute my opinions either so do me a favour, quit your ****ing deluded old yapping about ladies football and so on because you sound like a ****ing clueless pig. Ladies ****ing football, you've proved yourself to be nothing more than a boring, pathetic, weasel.
Like I'd ever give a flying **** about what you think of me.
I take your personal attack to mean that you don't have an answer based on fact? I'm rather pleased by your disguised admission.