Off Topic What a waste (again)

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First time posting on here, but I think I can provide some useful insight.
I got my A Level results last week, confirmed my place for Oxford Brookes uni and will be studying history there in September.
I personally don't agree with much of the sentiment towards my generation going to uni. Lots of the people from my (state) school have rightfully earned the opportunity to go to university and get a degree. There is a lot of pressure on students in sixth form nowadays to go to uni, in order to increase the school's reputation. I feel it's grossly unfair to judge my generation as we are being just because we strive to do something we actually want to do.
I will, however, accept that there are too many courses for subjects that aren't real (e.g. Nutrition, what even is that?)

Welcome to the Board Ranger 96. As Stan said, no one's criticizing the individuals. They make their choices within a system that I feel has misled students in past years. Current students just need to go in with their eyes open, that, for example, a 2-2 in Drama after 3 years, while being useful later in life in e.g. an amateur dramatics society, may not open that many doors in business and commerce. Business and commerce may not be important to that individual, and so, aware of the reality, they go ahead with drama, and that's fine, they make their informed choice.

PS Good luck with your course!
 
Welcome to the Board Ranger 96. As Stan said, no one's criticizing the individuals. They make their choices within a system that I feel has misled students in past years. Current students just need to go in with their eyes open, that, for example, a 2-2 in Drama after 3 years, while being useful later in life in e.g. an amateur dramatics society, may not open that many doors in business and commerce. Business and commerce may not be important to that individual, and so, aware of the reality, they go ahead with drama, and that's fine, they make their informed choice.

PS Good luck with your course!

I think that's a great shout because I have some oscar winning drama performances in the UK corporate culture
The entire staff at where I am stationed must have all got degrees in drama
Come to think of it you can witness people in everyday life now really really really really so so so getting into their roles its so so so amazing
 
I think that's a great shout because I have some oscar winning drama performances in the UK corporate culture
The entire staff at where I am stationed must have all got degrees in drama
Come to think of it you can witness people in everyday life now really really really really so so so getting into their roles its so so so amazing

Sounds like you work with some natural Thespians who have no need of academia. Every day, a different performance...Life must never be dull in your office!
 
Just heard that a friend's son has got into his first choice Uni. He was offered a place if he got an A and 2 Bs. He actually got 3 C's, phoned them up and they decided to give him the place anyway. Good for him and he's a good lad, but tells you everything you need to know about the financial need of the institutions to fill every spot.
 
So have I got this right... Undergraduate degrees in Scotland are essentially free for Scottish nationals and EU nationals, however, if you come from England, Wales and NI you have to pay to study in Scotland. How on earth does that work?
 
So have I got this right... Undergraduate degrees in Scotland are essentially free for Scottish nationals and EU nationals, however, if you come from England, Wales and NI you have to pay to study in Scotland. How on earth does that work?


Not sure on the workings of it all, but essentially you are correct.

The standard tuition fee for an undergraduate degree course in Scotland in 2015 is £1,820.

The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will pay these fees if you meet eligibility conditions; for example, if you are a Scottish resident and/or a qualifying non-UK EC student.
If you come from the Rest of the UK (RUK), universities in Scotland will charge you variable fees up to a maximum of £9,000 just like England and Wales.
 
Not sure on the workings of it all, but essentially you are correct.

The standard tuition fee for an undergraduate degree course in Scotland in 2015 is £1,820.

The Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS) will pay these fees if you meet eligibility conditions; for example, if you are a Scottish resident and/or a qualifying non-UK EC student.
If you come from the Rest of the UK (RUK), universities in Scotland will charge you variable fees up to a maximum of £9,000 just like England and Wales.
Isn't that discrimination?
 
Isn't that discrimination?

Not really - they are seperate education systems, so can charge whatever they decide (although I understand your point). Surely the argument would be better turned on it's head and ask why the English universities can charge and then the students get loaded with debts whuch can take them years to pay off?
 
So then why allow EU nationals the subsidies but discriminate against the RUK students? I support subsidies for your own nationals but then to say no to English, Welsh and NIish who are 'EU' nationals is wrong. The Scots are only part of the EU as part of the UK, as are the RUKs. Surprised this has been allowed to happen, then again maybe not!
 
Difficult one this one, IMO this wasn't Blair initiated, this started with the upgrade of Polytechnics to Universities. No offence to those that studied at some fantastic establishments but it was a dumbing down. Simply gaining entry to University had been seen as an enormous achievement - certainly within my circles. It was undoubtedly heavily weighted in favour of Public and Grammar schools, I can say this by the fact that during my time at the comprehensive school I attended, not one person went to University, this cant have been right, especially when thinking that many of my peers have gone on to take positions ranging from Aeronautics and Astronautics physician at NASA to Directors in Local Govt. etc.
The problem that the UK is facing is more or less the same that Spain has faced for the past 20 years which for them, stemmed from the death of Generalissimo Franco. Up until his death, attending University was something for the very privileged few, it was only natural thereafter that parents who had not had the opportunity of a decent education would then do everything in their power to give their children that chance.
I, myself, son of Spanish parents, remember only too well that "my plan" at 13 was already to attend Southampton University to study law!! 13 years old!!
The "Golden Age" in Spain coincided of course with the development of Spain from Third World to European Power with an abundance of opportunities for this generation. However, it then became the norm for literally EVERYONE to go to University and as the courses were not free parents were doing everything within their power to get their children to go. Within my own family I have a cousin who took 11 years to complete a 5 year course - of what value could that degree have been?
What we can also see now is that the expectation levels have gone through the roof with these same graduates and the levels of talent and dedication have not risen exponentially - in fact I'd call most of them within my own experience as lazy and already looking for promotion and their rightful higher salary. Furthermore, not nearly dedicated, knowledgeable or productive as those that have risen through the ranks over years.

We have become fixated on titles, if we look at LinkedIn, nearly everyone has some kind of fancy title - myself included, why, not everyone can be a Manager or Head of something can they?
I know I always go on about how wonderful Denmark is but we could really learn from their society - when at a social gatherings with strangers it is extremely rare that anyone asks you what you do for a living, I'm one that is asked once in a while due to my Cockney Danish accent and when I tell them where I work, it immediately puts them off as the company I work for is held as some kind of elitist cult group - the probable total opposite of the "prestige" we would consider it to be in GB, US or Spain for ex.

As always the balance has to be a fine one between providing opportunity for all (and an understanding to what that means)and thereafter making that opportunity worthwhile and other professions equally worthwhile.

One thing is for sure - We are getting more and more people from all walks of life going through Higher Education yet the talent pool is dwindling - strange.

OK - I'm with you, blame it on Blair and Cameron:emoticon-0136-giggl
Damn, a nuanced and balanced response............both my brothers got to Uni after going to comprehensive schools whereas my two best mates from Grammar school both left education at 18, one has been Financial Director of several nationally well known companies and the other has had a long career in the commercial side of broadcasting with Sky and others and now has his own very trendy company. As long as your chances are not closed off (as Richard Ranger implied) not doing Uni is the end of nothing.

As far as job titles go I love the LinkedIn inflation. My own is intentionally completely impenetrable, even to company employees, and not strictly accurate in terms of byzantine company hierarchy. Can't be arsed to change it. I have asked a couple of people about their ambitions and got the response 'I want to be a Vice President'. "Vice President of what, paperclips?" "I don't mind'. I tell them that my entirely achievable ambition is to spend most of my time reading a book and sipping Brunello on my terrace in a hilltop village in Umbria. But secretly it's to change the 'Global' in my job title to 'Galactic'.
 
You really do need to try and get relevant work experience, if not in term time then during summer holidays or even better a good placement year. Your degree doesn't get you the job you want, your work experience does. If I see a CV with Degree, non-relevant work experience its a real struggle to help those people (no matter how promising they are, because employers will quite probably have 10 CV's on their desk with related Degree and related work experience.

Point taken... and not as someone that 'employs' young people I can't really comment on the intricacies of the employer perspective.

The essence of what I was saying is that working, in whatever form, through uni can be a very positive experience. What I learned about human nature from being a waiter/barmean has stood me in good stead despite the fact that I didn't pursue a career in catering - dealing with people is a universal skill which we can all benefit from, and in my case the confidence it gave me really helps with e.g. presenting/pitching - at the same time, learning what it is like to be on the 'other side of the counter' i.e. doing the serving rather than being the served gives one a bit of life perspective and certainly teaches a bit of humility when you're again the one being served.

It is perhaps sad that the perceived need to gain 'work experience' in a field you intend to pursue is given so much credence - especially since degrees and university are an opportunity to learn and experience so many different things - all things that will help anyone to become a much more rounded individual.
 
First time posting on here, but I think I can provide some useful insight.
I got my A Level results last week, confirmed my place for Oxford Brookes uni and will be studying history there in September.
I personally don't agree with much of the sentiment towards my generation going to uni. Lots of the people from my (state) school have rightfully earned the opportunity to go to university and get a degree. There is a lot of pressure on students in sixth form nowadays to go to uni, in order to increase the school's reputation. I feel it's grossly unfair to judge my generation as we are being just because we strive to do something we actually want to do.
I will, however, accept that there are too many courses for subjects that aren't real (e.g. Nutrition, what even is that?)

Welcome to the forum 96 and nail on the head mate. Mickey mouse degrees which will help boost the government education figures but most likely not lead to a worthy job in the long term.

Still fair play to anyone with any degree as they are much more clever than me and got there on merit and good grades.
 
Programme on BBC1 at the moment about what parents will do 'to get the very best free education' (programme makers words) for their kids. I'm glad my kids are too old for us to go through this ****. Fighting to get kids into C of E schools by attending church, then stopping as soon as the offer of a place is made (over 50%), renting a flat to get an addresss in the catchment area for a 'good' school, departments full of local authority 'investigators' trying to catch people bending the rules - and taking them to court.

Here's an idea. Take the resource and energy going into this quasi policeforce and improve the schools people don't want their kids to go to. Havering Council employs at least 3 people (probably more, these were the ones on the telly) to find 26 dodgy applications of which 9 were found to be 'fraudulent'.

Of course, as soon as they get their little darlings into a 'good' school, the parents spend the rest of their time sneaking them out to go on illicit term time holidays.
 
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