Match Day Thread Weather permitting...

[Ralph]

Hey Tobes, it is just my personal opinion. But you can't be critical of something, call for change but not offer a solution. Learner invested in the form of directors loans and took back that money with interest, did he set the interest rates and would you say that if he did it was a fair way of doing so? Would you accept Bill and Co. investing in this way at an interest rate they set?

In the end why shoud the Chairman invest? Or the board for that matter, should it not be an investment made by every singel share holder in the club?

If profit is made or the value of said shares increase all will see a benefit, why should a select few carry the burden of investment?

You might own a tv/washing machine/ anything that doesn't work. But if you don't know how to fix it are you not allowed to be critical of shoddy workmanship?

 

[Peej]

You might own a tv/washing machine/ anything that doesn't work. But if you don't know how to fix it are you not allowed to be critical of shoddy workmanship?

Im an Enginner so have the kind of knowledge needed Nice analogy BTW, but thats all

 

[Ralph]

Im an Enginner so have the kind of knowledge needed Nice analogy BTW, but thats all

Good for you but hopefully you understand the point I was trying to make

 

[Tobes]

Hey Tobes, it is just my personal opinion. But you can't be critical of something, call for change but not offer a solution. Learner invested in the form of directors loans and took back that money with interest, did he set the interest rates and would you say that if he did it was a fair way of doing so? Would you accept Bill and Co. investing in this way at an interest rate they set?

In the end why shoud the Chairman invest? Or the board for that matter, should it not be an investment made by every singel share holder in the club?

If profit is made or the value of said shares increase all will see a benefit, why should a select few carry the burden of investment?

Lerner did charge interest and management fees on his initial loans, but he's subequently waived off around £100m of money loaned and converted it into equity, so he's not the best example when compared to Bill and Co's £0 investment.

Why should a board invest? Bill, Earl and Woods own about 70% of the club between them, therefore they have a combined controlling interest, and it's therefore their responsibility as the board of the business to decide the strategy and capital with which to deliver it.

10 years on, we're no further forward in terms of a stadium solution - the prime issue that's faced the club for over 20 years. If Bill and Co aren't prepared (or able) to come up with a deliverable plan that they can fund, then they're not the right people to be sat in the boardroom - end of. It really is that simple, that issue alone shows that they've failed - miserably.

 

[Peej]

Good for you but hopefully you understand the point I was trying to make

How three men who all made millions can't make a profit from Everton. Is it that they dont have the skills to make money? Well its clear that they have the skills to make money as they are all self made (not so sure about woods, didn't he get rrich from selling a software development compay?)

That they dont have the business skills needed? See above.

They are the holders of a significant interest in the company, yet will only make the same return per share as every single person who holds one.

So - using an old and tired example. £20m investment would require about £570 per share from all who own them. That would be the best and fairest way to raise investment wouldn't it?

By the three shareholders doing a Learner it would reduce any dividened that could be paid out to the other share holders. Do you think Grantchaster would be happy about that?

 

[Peej]

Lerner did charge interest and management fees on his initial loans, but he's subequently waived off around £100m of money loaned and converted it into equity, so he's not the best example when compared to Bill and Co's £0 investment.

Why should a board invest? Bill, Earl and Woods own about 70% of the club between them, therefore they have a combined controlling interest, and it's therefore their responsibility as the board of the business to decide the strategy and capital with which to deliver it.

10 years on, we're no further forward in terms of a stadium solution - the prime issue that's faced the club for over 20 years. If Bill and Co aren't prepared (or able) to come up with a deliverable plan that they can fund, then they're not the right people to be sat in the boardroom - end of. It really is that simple, that issue alone shows that they've failed - miserably.

So Learner has already taken a large chunk of his money back, with interest and fee's and now is waiting for his initial investment to increase via his equity stake?

 

[Tobes]

So Learner has already taken a large chunk of his money back, with interest and fee's and now is waiting for his initial investment to increase via his equity stake?

No. Lerner who owned all of the equity, has effectively written off £100m that he put in. He paid £62m for the club, he's put in a further £240m and is reportedly willing to sell for as little as £100m, which would see him lose over £200m.

 

[Tobes]

How three men who all made millions can't make a profit from Everton. Is it that they dont have the skills to make money? Well its clear that they have the skills to make money as they are all self made (not so sure about woods, didn't he get rrich from selling a software development compay?)

That they dont have the business skills needed? See above.

They are the holders of a significant interest in the company, yet will only make the same return per share as every single person who holds one.

So - using an old and tired example. £20m investment would require about £570 per share from all who own them. That would be the best and fairest way to raise investment wouldn't it?

By the three shareholders doing a Learner it would reduce any dividened that could be paid out to the other share holders. Do you think Grantchaster would be happy about that?

If they invested £100m they could do so as a non interest bearing loan, and as and when the club was sold the debt would be subtracted off the equity value, so that scuppers that argument.

 

[Peej]

If they invested £100m they could do so as a non interest bearing loan, and as and when the club was sold the debt would be subtracted off the equity value, so that scuppers that argument.

But that is based on the club being sold. Even then would you take the risk with your hard earned?

Plus it would need for the shareholders to agree to this investment also that the interest be added to the sum at point of sale....or what you are suggesting is an interest free loan for the club funded by three members of the board

 

[Peej]

No. Lerner who owned all of the equity, has effectively written off £100m that he put in. He paid £62m for the club, he's put in a further £240m and is reportedly willing to sell for as little as £100m, which would see him lose over £200m.

Hold on.....

He paid £62m, invested £240m which all but £100m was repaid including interest and fees(nobody can be sure how much that total is) - from the info you supplied. If he is selling for as little as £100m, it begs the question....why has it not sold?

Either the price has increased or their is no money to be made?

 

[Tobes]

But that is based on the club being sold. Even then would you take the risk with your hard earned?

Plus it would need for the shareholders to agree to this investment also that the interest be added to the sum at point of sale....or what you are suggesting is an interest free loan for the club funded by three members of the board

An exit strategy. Which is what most (non benefactor) football club investors have as their strategy to gain a ROI.

Investing capital in order to grow the business and thus it's equity value is a basic business premise.

What Bill and Co have achieved is a massive increase in their equity value based on a capital injection of £0. They've basically sat on their shares and via the huge increases in PL TV revenues, have seen their initial share purchase multiply in value for doing sweet FA

 

[Peej]

An exit strategy. Which is what most (non benefactor) football club investors have as their strategy to gain a ROI.

Investing capital in order to grow the business and thus it's equity value is a basic business premise.

What Bill and Co have achieved is a massive increase in their equity value based on a capital injection of £0. They've basically sat on their shares and via the huge increases in PL TV revenues, have seen their initial share purchase multiply in value for doing sweet FA

I agree that looks to be the likely outcome, so if the original investment was low and return potentially high why invest further? Hold out for the next TV deal and run.

But with Villa on the market for a low price and excellent ground/facilities.......why have they not been snapped up?

 

[Tobes]

I agree that looks to be the likely outcome, so if the original investment was low and return potentially high why invest further? Hold out for the next TV deal and run.

But with Villa on the market for a low price and excellent ground/facilities.......why have they not been snapped up?

Same reason as why we haven't - the price. You can selll anything anytime as long as the price is attractive enough.

Maybe Lerners reported price isn't the reality?

In any case, given what our lot paid for it, they could easily offload it and make a hefty return for doing FA tomorrow mate, and we both know it.

 

[Peej]

Same reason as why we haven't - the price. You can selll anything anytime as long as the price is attractive enough.

Maybe Lerners reported price isn't the reality?

In any case, given what our lot paid for it, they could easily offload it and make a hefty return for doing FA tomorrow mate, and we both know it.

Why would they? If learners asking price suddenly changes and or his payback increases. What were the interest and fees he charged?

Woods possibly, but he like BK has a long running connection to the club.

Earl. Well he has no link to the club so will hold out.

Bill, well the rumours are that he never used his own money and its Phil Green who calls the shots. Bill is just the front and its Green who picks up more shares in Bills name.

But if Grantchaster is worth £1.2bn then why doesn't he invest in the way you suggested. He doesn't have a significant share holding but that investment would give him a bigger voice within and he could dictate how it is spent.

Buy back finch farm, rebuild and extend the bullens, add a tier to the PE in the close season so I keep my seat ;-)

He went to the London school of economics and should realise it's a great investment.

 

[Tobes]

Why would they? If learners asking price suddenly changes and or his payback increases. What were the interest and fees he charged?

Woods possibly, but he like BK has a long running connection to the club.

Earl. Well he has no link to the club so will hold out.

Bill, well the rumours are that he never used his own money and its Phil Green who calls the shots. Bill is just the front and its Green who picks up more shares in Bills name.

But if Grantchaster is worth £1.2bn then why doesn't he invest in the way you suggested. He doesn't have a significant share holding but that investment would give him a bigger voice within and he could dictate how it is spent.

Buy back finch farm, rebuild and extend the bullens, add a tier to the PE in the close season so I keep my seat ;-)

He went to the London school of economics and should realise it's a great investment.

Grantchester has zero interest in investing in EFC. He's also not inherited the estate yet btw, so he's not worth £1.2bn at all.

No idea what Greens involvement is or isn't. All I know is that it's time for Bill to pack up and ship out. He's not well either, so the time is definitely right for all concerned

 

[Peej]

Well the story goes that his shares are paid for by cash from Green.

So he could step down as Chairman.

Well the shares are in his name, wonder why he has no interest in investing.....why do we have another major share holder not interested in investing in the club?

 

[Tobes]

Well the story goes that his shares are paid for by cash from Green.

So he could step down as Chairman.

Well the shares are in his name, wonder why he has no interest in investing.....why do we have another major share holder not interested in investing in the club?

Bills shares are his own, as are Woods.

Earl, who knows? But Bill brought him in, to see off Gregg. Woods and Bill don't need Earl to have a controlling interest at Everton - if they could get Granchester on side.....

It's an unholy mess, and it needs resolving if the club is to fulfil its potential. I'm not a Bill hater and never have been, but he is holding the club back, and he does need to accept that fact and move it on. Appoint an agent, set a sensible price and sell it.

 

[Peej]

Bills shares are his own, as are Woods.

Earl, who knows? But Bill brought him in, to see off Gregg. Woods and Bill don't need Earl to have a controlling interest at Everton - if they could get Granchester on side.....

It's an unholy mess, and it needs resolving if the club is to fulfil its potential. I'm not a Bill hater and never have been, but he is holding the club back, and he does need to accept that fact and move it on. Appoint an agent, set a sensible price and sell it.

Bill could sell his shares, but I think that the other mojor share holders get first refusal if I understand correctly. But as the club has three holders of significant interest it would only take someone offering the required asking price for Bill and Woods to sell, im sure that nobody has so far.....whatever the price may be? But if Grantchaster is not interested in investing into the club how would the Earl share be purchased....where does Green come into this?

The board could appoint someone to act as an agent, I think they have in the past? A controlling interest in purchased and then the club is out of their hands, would you blame them if it all went tits up under new stewardship? Bill has stated it is his responsibility to sell to someone who will look after the club and not lead us the way of Blackburn, Leeds, Birmingham, Portsmouth, Swansea, Villa(possibly)

 

[Tobes]

Bill could sell his shares, but I think that the other mojor share holders get first refusal if I understand correctly. But as the club has three holders of significant interest it would only take someone offering the required asking price for Bill and Woods to sell, im sure that nobody has so far.....whatever the price may be? But if Grantchaster is not interested in investing into the club how would the Earl share be purchased....where does Green come into this?

The board could appoint someone to act as an agent, I think they have in the past? A controlling interest in purchased and then the club is out of their hands, would you blame them if it all went tits up under new stewardship? Bill has stated it is his responsibility to sell to someone who will look after the club and not lead us the way of Blackburn, Leeds, Birmingham, Portsmouth, Swansea, Villa(possibly)

The Moores family (Grantchester) still own 8% of the equity, so Earl could pack up and go (assuming he could find a buyer for his stake) and BK / Woods could still have a controlling interest. That was my point.

As for who buys the club should it be sold via an agency. I think we've got beyind the point where the fear of change is less than the fear of nothing changing personally.

Without a stadium solution and without capital investment, then the club is likely to slide away in the medium term. The current incumbents have shown that they're going to invest £0 in the club, they therefore have no place sitting in the boardroom. They should take their profit and move on. Maybe Bill can have some sort of honorary role as a sweetener, but it's time he handed over the reigns to a younger and more progressive thinking Chairman. The club deserves it and needs it.

 

[Peej]

Who? Bill is just a figurehead Chairman.....I doubt that he is putting foraward business plans.

Earl will not sell/move on and nobody wants to try and buy his stake, not even from within. I like the idea of Woods, Kenwright and Grantchaster coming together....b.ut I wonder why they havent?