Off Topic Friday debate...

[Tel (they/them)]

I'm not a politician by any stretch so not sure what to make of this theory, but a friend was telling me this last night and I thought it was at least worth sharing to get other people's views. Hopefully the thread won't descend into a brawl or an immigrant bashing thread, we have plenty of them...

So my friend tells me his theory, that the Tories are set out to destroy the benefit system in the UK to bring it into line with the majority of Europe to make this country less attractive to potential immigrants (unskilled, if you like). Others must suffer along the way (Bri I know you'll have something to add here) as a consequence, but to achieve it, we must accept immigrants until the benefit/welfare system is at bursting point.

I'm not sure I'm painting the picture as well as he did. He also mentioned our health services, going private so that there isn't that attraction to immigrants either.

Basically, the more immigrants that are let into this country, the sooner the immigration wave will have to stop. The old 'everything that goes up, must come down' scenario.

Is my mate talking utter ****? What are the valid (unbiased) arguments to this... I'm looking for more than just 'The Tories are selfish ****s' here, I'm trying to gauge whether this is actually a plan or just a wild theory.

 

[sussexmackem]

I know what your mate is saying the thing that worries me most is the futue of the NHS.Believe me that people like me with left of centre views are as rare as hens teeth in Sussex. I don't see a viable future for the NHS in its present form and I accept that it is necessary for some cooperation with the private sector but I do not Privatisation to be the norm.I had a Hip replacement in a private hospital as an NHS patient, I only waited 3 months but friends in other parts of the region are having to wait 9 months.
I'm not sure about the immigration aspect,if they come here and graft it's not a problem to me,the problem is that some British people who are capable of working would rather sit on their arses.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

I know what your mate is saying the thing that worries me most is the futue of the NHS.Believe me that people like me with left of centre views are as rare as hens teeth in Sussex. I don't see a viable future for the NHS in its present form and I accept that it is necessary for some cooperation with the private sector but I do not Privatisation to be the norm.I had a Hip replacement in a private hospital as an NHS patient, I only waited 3 months but friends in other parts of the region are having to wait 9 months.
I'm not sure about the immigration aspect,if they come here and graft it's not a problem to me,the problem is that some British people who are capable of working would rather sit on their arses.

Well there's no question about why the immigrants come. There's a gap in the market for people prepared to work hard in this country. The issue is that people seem to have a sense of entitlement, that they've put taxes in and deserve the world back in return despite not being prepared to work. The people with that attitude, are the ones spoiling it for those who are prepared to work but can't because of disability or being discriminated against for age, plus other factors.

I wonder if the long term goal is to break the NHS and create a European Health Service, I'm not sure what implications that would have on the UK, but as a long term goal it doesn't seem to me to be too outrageous, even if I never live to see the benefits of it, we could be just stuck in that ****ty bit in the middle.

 

[JustMeMan]

The immigrants will work twice as hard and for half the pay.
Looks like the average Brit is ****ed. The average Brit are tainted with the lazy bastard syndrome. It's here already just look around you the birth rate in this country is 80/20 in favour of? let's just say the 20% is the lazy syndrome bastards.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

The immigrants will work twice as hard and for half the pay.
Looks like the average Brit is ****ed. The average Brit are tainted with the lazy bastard syndrome. It's here already just look around you the birth rate in this country is 80/20 in favour of? let's just say the 20% is the lazy syndrome bastards.

Not all of the immigrant will though mate, plenty are here to sponge, which is what gets people's backs up.

It's nowhere near a big enough problem though to attribute the decline of the UK to. Surely?

 

[JustMeMan]

Not all of the immigrant will though mate, plenty are here to sponge, which is what gets people's backs up.

It's nowhere near a big enough problem though to attribute the decline of the UK to. Surely?

A classic example is Mike Ashley sports direct factory's the last I saw it is full of polish workers.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

A classic example is Mike Ashley sports direct factory's the last I saw it is full of polish workers.

I have a polish lad who does work on my house, two in fact, one is a joiner, the other is the muscle. Absolutely ruthless they are, get in, get the job done, get paid. They ****ing hate cups of tea and they fetch their own sandwiches. Spot on.

 

[JustMeMan]

I have a polish lad who does work on my house, two in fact, one is a joiner, the other is the muscle. Absolutely ruthless they are, get in, get the job done, get paid. They ****ing hate cups of tea and they fetch their own sandwiches. Spot on.

Had a 3 doing my guttering and fascia few month back working for a massive company. Great lads and never stopped for food or drink.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Had a 3 doing my guttering and fascia few month back working for a massive company. Great lads and never stopped for food or drink.

They're great, we did a lot of work in Poland, down in Krakow early last year. Their work forces in the factories are like machines, unbelievable.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

So people get told they are wrong for saying that migrants come to sponge. Yet the same people that tell them they're wrong say British people are lazy.

Of course.

 

[crumble bungle]

Good debate.

Hope I don't deviate too much lol.

I don't think they can afford to or they will never get back in due to the amount of dependants on benefits and the NHS.

Personally why not just ban immigrants from using our NHS or benefits system unless they have either been here for x amount of time or got valid insurance to cover health etc.

Don't let them in unless they have sufficient coinage to cover a set period, typically like Australia do I think.

This way we would be protecting our own NHS and benefits system without attracting migrants to what a lot believe is their right once they are in our borders.

A lot of the Poles and other Europeans I have come across are grafters, tip my hat to them.

Others who come to scrounge should be hoofed out if they are not contributing within a given time.

Or better still, man up and be like Australia, if we don't want you, you aint getting in and if you do get in and you don't like it then you can **** off to where you came from.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

So people get told they are wrong for saying that migrants come to sponge. Yet the same people that tell them they're wrong say British people are lazy.

Of course.

I said there was a 'gap in the market for people who are prepared to work hard', I never said there was an entire market. It's not even up for debate, there's an abundance of fat, disgusting or just plain lazy slobs in the UK with a sense of self entitlement. I never once said all Brits.

I think your analysis there was more of a sly dig than it was informed.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Good debate.

Hope I don't deviate too much lol.

I don't think they can afford to or they will never get back in due to the amount of dependants on benefits and the NHS.

Personally why not just ban immigrants from using our NHS or benefits system unless they have either been here for x amount of time or got valid insurance to cover health etc.

Don't let them in unless they have sufficient coinage to cover a set period, typically like Australia do I think.

This way we would be protecting our own NHS and benefits system without attracting migrants to what a lot believe is their right once they are in our borders.

A lot of the Poles and other Europeans I have come across are grafters, tip my hat to them.

Others who come to scrounge should be hoofed out if they are not contributing within a given time.

Or better still, man up and be like Australia, if we don't want you, you aint getting in and if you do get in and you don't like it then you can **** off to where you came from.

How do you determine who are here to scrounge though mate?

For example, one immigrant doctor who contributes 40% of his salary to the economy, surely is entitled to his share of free healthcare, more than some dole scum chav who mugs old women and fingers cats all day, adding nothing to the economy?

GIve the chav a heart transplant for free but make the indian doc pay through the nose for an X-Ray for his son who's just fell off his bike?

 

[crumble bungle]

How do you determine who are here to scrounge though mate?

For example, one immigrant doctor who contributes 40% of his salary to the economy, surely is entitled to his share of free healthcare, more than some dole scum chav who mugs old women and fingers cats all day, adding nothing to the economy?

GIve the chav a heart transplant for free but make the indian doc pay through the nose for an X-Ray for his son who's just fell off his bike?

I see that the people who are here to scrounge can easily be seen by their attitude to wanting to find a job and better themselves rather than wanting to come here and see what they can get for nothing.
If someone is contributing to the system then granted they should receive their entitlement, NHS or benefits of some kind but at least they are contributing, i.e. paying taxes and insurances etc.. They are the people who I would class as being acceptable.
The dole scum who "fingers cats lol" is a scrounger and a boil on society that need lancing, end off. Stop his benefits or at the very least stop giving him money if legal to do so and pay whatever we have to pay to him in food vouchers. If he sells the vouchers for ***s or drink etc. Then in my ideal world let the twat starve.
Too many people seem to know how to work the system and that is where the problem lies, clean the system up, those that are in genuine need of benefits should be entitled to them. The ones who don't or who bleed the system need to be eradicated and made to pay back what they have scammed, fiddled or whatever term is best used.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

I see that the people who are here to scrounge can easily be seen by their attitude to wanting to find a job and better themselves rather than wanting to come here and see what they can get for nothing.
If someone is contributing to the system then granted they should receive their entitlement, NHS or benefits of some kind but at least they are contributing, i.e. paying taxes and insurances etc.. They are the people who I would class as being acceptable.
The dole scum who "fingers cats lol" is a scrounger and a boil on society that need lancing, end off. Stop his benefits or at the very least stop giving him money if legal to do so and pay whatever we have to pay to him in food vouchers. If he sells the vouchers for ***s or drink etc. Then in my ideal world let the twat starve.
Too many people seem to know how to work the system and that is where the problem lies, clean the system up, those that are in genuine need of benefits should be entitled to them. The ones who don't or who bleed the system need to be eradicated and made to pay back what they have scammed, fiddled or whatever term is best used.

I guess the thread is indicative of different opinions, the same will happen in parliament "How best to deal with X".

There's so many ways to attack this countries problems that maybe the powers that be are guilty of spreading their bets, rather than focussing on one solution for each problem. Then you have gov't changes from Labour policies to Tory policies, you might as well be half way through baking a cake then the other party comes in and sticks it in the bin and starts over, repeat, repeat.

We're lucky to be born here in a way, I'd hate to be in that immigrant fishbowl being accused of ruining the country by association.

 

[crumble bungle]

I guess the thread is indicative of different opinions, the same will happen in parliament "How best to deal with X".

There's so many ways to attack this countries problems that maybe the powers that be are guilty of spreading their bets, rather than focussing on one solution for each problem. Then you have gov't changes from Labour policies to Tory policies, you might as well be half way through baking a cake then the other party comes in and sticks it in the bin and starts over, repeat, repeat.

We're lucky to be born here in a way, I'd hate to be in that immigrant fishbowl being accused of ruining the country by association.

cant disagree with any of that especially the baking the cake bit

 

[Rick O'Shea]

I said there was a 'gap in the market for people who are prepared to work hard', I never said there was an entire market. It's not even up for debate, there's an abundance of fat, disgusting or just plain lazy slobs in the UK with a sense of self entitlement. I never once said all Brits.

I think your analysis there was more of a sly dig than it was informed.

Wasn't having a dig at anyone, if thats how you feel its your issue not mine.

Its just the bullshit labelling and sweeping comments that inevitably arise. Didn't really reference anything...

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Wasn't having a dig at anyone, if thats how you feel its your issue not mine.

Its just the bullshit labelling and sweeping comments that inevitably arise. Didn't really reference anything...

Back your **** up Indy.

Where did I say all Brits are lazy?

Nobody has said that on here. I've said not all immigrants come to scrounge, which is true. I also said, there's a lot of people in the UK, born here, who are too lazy to work. Which is true.

So why make unfounded critique?

 

[Brian Storm]

I'm not a politician by any stretch so not sure what to make of this theory, but a friend was telling me this last night and I thought it was at least worth sharing to get other people's views. Hopefully the thread won't descend into a brawl or an immigrant bashing thread, we have plenty of them...

So my friend tells me his theory, that the Tories are set out to destroy the benefit system in the UK to bring it into line with the majority of Europe to make this country less attractive to potential immigrants (unskilled, if you like). Others must suffer along the way (Bri I know you'll have something to add here) as a consequence, but to achieve it, we must accept immigrants until the benefit/welfare system is at bursting point.

I'm not sure I'm painting the picture as well as he did. He also mentioned our health services, going private so that there isn't that attraction to immigrants either.

Basically, the more immigrants that are let into this country, the sooner the immigration wave will have to stop. The old 'everything that goes up, must come down' scenario.

Is my mate talking utter ****? What are the valid (unbiased) arguments to this... I'm looking for more than just 'The Tories are selfish ****s' here, I'm trying to gauge whether this is actually a plan or just a wild theory.

If you don't want immigrants collecting benefits, don't let them, if you don't want them getting free health care, don't let them have it. I don't buy the theory. Tories have always looked to cut services and benefits and have always been big on privatisation, even back when immigration was encouraged and viewed as very good for the country. They may use it as the excuse but it's sure as hell not the reason.

Tories care about business and the middle classes. You only needs to see the situation this the London Hedgefunders paying for the Tory election only for the Tories to sell them cut price shares in RBS costing the tax payer millions to see what the Tories are all about.

 

[Brian Storm]

Not all of the immigrant will though mate, plenty are here to sponge, which is what gets people's backs up.

It's nowhere near a big enough problem though to attribute the decline of the UK to. Surely?

It's all of them grouping up in properties that gets me, 10-15 people in two bedroom house, minimises the cost of living in this country to virtually nothing only to send the pound out of the country, weakening our economy in the process, it's a huge problem and detrimental to progression. We're inviting a us against Britain attitude for immigrants and they're basically fleecing us.