Downing

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Crossing and wing play are over-rated. It's the English game that makes these wingers become so one-dimensional.

In other countries, the wide midfielders have a wider role in the team, and can adapt their game to suit the circumstances. Giggs has been able to do this, which is one of the reasons he's been able to prolong his career.

Of course it helps to have someone like Carroll upfront, but even with the most accurate crosser it's still basically hit and hope. Give me a defence-splitting pass any day.
 
stopthepress said:
Crossing and wing play are over-rated. It's the English game that makes these wingers become so one-dimensional.

In other countries, the wide midfielders have a wider role in the team, and can adapt their game to suit the circumstances. Giggs has been able to do this, which is one of the reasons he's been able to prolong his career.

Of course it helps to have someone like Carroll upfront, but even with the most accurate crosser it's still basically hit and hope. Give me a defence-splitting pass any day.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you.

This should be engraved on every stadium in England.
 
If you want to make comparisons regarding Downing then I think you have to go all the way back to Ian Callaghan who quietly but effectively got on with his work. Merely crossing a ball is, as has been said above limited. But creating width and pulling defences wider than they would wish to be is also an asset. As for the 'defence-splitting pass' we now have a midfield unit that can deliver those passes regularly.
 
stopthepress said:
Of course it helps to have someone like Carroll upfront, but even with the most accurate crosser it's still basically hit and hope. Give me a defence-splitting pass any day.
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With an accurate crosser the risk is diminished. Steve Heighway was a big part of Liverpool's 70s success. On the other hand, how many defence-splitting passes do you see? They're great but what are the chances, really? With a low opportunity count it turns into hit and hope.
 
Muppetfinder General.
Do you know the reason why Steve Heighway was successful?
It had nothing much to do with his ability to find the top of John Toshacks head..some people would want to make you think that.John Toshack was actually for someone of his size...a poor header of a ball.It was down to awareness,cohesion..team-work.
It was down to space,movement and energy and the ability to move the ball quickly ie one/two touch passes.Thats why Ian Callaghan and Terry McDermott and Craig Johnston on the right and Ray Kennedy/Steve Heighway/Ronnie Whelan on the left were so effective.
 
stopthepress said:
Crossing and wing play are over-rated. It's the English game that makes these wingers become so one-dimensional.

In other countries, the wide midfielders have a wider role in the team, and can adapt their game to suit the circumstances. Giggs has been able to do this, which is one of the reasons he's been able to prolong his career.

Of course it helps to have someone like Carroll upfront, but even with the most accurate crosser it's still basically hit and hope. Give me a defence-splitting pass any day.
Click to expand...

You speak as if with the greatest authority, and yet are just dishing out blind criticisms. A cross is simply a pass from a wider position in field, usually in the final third. It is simply a horizontal pass, and in the control of someone who has some ability to make such a pass it is no more difficult than a 'defence-splitting pass', and the goals it leads to count for no less. The same factors of power, height and trajectory are still the same.

Also which English 'game' is this? The one that is the most exciting and popular in the world? The one that has been hugely successful in Europe over the last 6/7 years as well as prior success?

What do you make of this? The best team in the world being undone by their massive Spanish rivals?
[video=youtube;_BZFzuAO0fQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BZFzuAO0fQ[/video]

Part of the Treble winning side a certain David Beckham (good watch):
[video=youtube;Gig9p0kGA1o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gig9p0kGA1o[/video]

Nobody is saying every attack must now end in a cross, but stop being so pretentious as if you've just discovered the 'proper' way to play football.
 
Beckham was hardly a touchline-hugging winger. One of the best things about his technique is that it was effective from anywhere on the field, not just the right wing. So if United were being overrun in the centre, Beckham could operate just as effectively in a more central position.

The difference between Beckham and most English wingers kind of proves the point I was making. It is possible, with a lot of practice, to make crossing into "horizontal passing". But most don't. They just throw it into the mixer because that's what's expected of them. Occasionally a goal is scored, but most of the time the attack is broken down.

What's the point of building up a decent move, only to throw in a percentage ball at the end? You may as well have just hoofed it long to start with. Before someone mentions Arsenal, yes they go too far the other way and fanny about too much. But with most English wingers, it's like they're playing on rails, going backwards and forwards up and down the touchline, not able to contribute elsewhere.
 
Skrtels Nips said:
Part of the Treble winning side a certain David Beckham (good watch):
[video=youtube;Gig9p0kGA1o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gig9p0kGA1o[/video]

Nobody is saying every attack must now end in a cross, but stop being so pretentious as if you've just discovered the 'proper' way to play football.
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Than you for posting a video on the Liverpool board of so many goals from the best team in England. :D
 
Thank you for posting a video of the best team in England.
He didn't...he posted a Man United video not a Liverpool video.
Alex Ferguson said it himself...Big clubs win the European 4 times...however what he failed to mention is even bigger clubs win it 5 times.Man United aren't a big club,they have won it.....3 times.<laugh>
 
KingPepeReina. said:
Thank you for posting a video of the best team in England.
He didn't...he posted a Man United video not a Liverpool video.
Alex Ferguson said it himself...Big clubs win the European 4 times...however what he failed to mention is even bigger clubs win it 5 times.Man United aren't a big club,they have won it.....3 times.<laugh>
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Hmmmmmm. Best team wins the league. Remind me who that was again?
 
stopthepress said:
It is possible, with a lot of practice, to make crossing into "horizontal passing". But most don't. They just throw it into the mixer because that's what's expected of them. Occasionally a goal is scored, but most of the time the attack is broken down.

What's the point of building up a decent move, only to throw in a percentage ball at the end? You may as well have just hoofed it long to start with. Before someone mentions Arsenal, yes they go too far the other way and fanny about too much. But with most English wingers, it's like they're playing on rails, going backwards and forwards up and down the touchline, not able to contribute elsewhere.
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5 stars

Exactamundo
 
Constcrepe said:
<doh> The team who finishes top and wins the league is the best team. If Liverpool manage this next season I would be gracious enough to say it.
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There my young friend you display your complete misunderstanding of both logic and league tables. If Liverpool win this season in the same circumstances as United tlast season - you'd still be wrong
 
Redconn - you disappoint me sir. A cross (or wide play) is NOT just about a percentage ball into teh box...(if we're on about percentages, aren't they all?)...No. Wide play creates space...for others. It stretches a defence and leaves room for movement - losing markers n such...panicking and confusing defenders....which Suarez is gonna love.

Having a winger is one of many weapons to attack a defence. That's all.

And I'd like to point out Carroll has more to HIS game than simply waiting around for a high ball...as proven the day- his goal in China. Please note he played a near -one two - ON THE DECK - with...wait for it - a wideman!
 
Spevin Casey said:
Redconn - you disappoint me sir. A cross (or wide play) is NOT just about a percentage ball into teh box...(if we're on about percentages, aren't they all?)...No. Wide play creates space...for others. It stretches a defence and leaves room for movement - losing markers n such...panicking and confusing defenders....which Suarez is gonna love.

Having a winger is one of many weapons to attack a defence. That's all.

And I'd like to point out Carroll has more to HIS game than simply waiting around for a high ball...as proven the day- his goal in China. Please note he played a near -one two - ON THE DECK - with...wait for it - a wideman!
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I agree with just about all of that.

As a side point, what the f&*^ was a wide player doing so close to Carroll? He's supposed to be out wide getting chalk on his boots waiting to cross. Not cutting inside to play passing football on the deck ;)
 
Yeah, well that was a fullback more isolated than a leper on a desert island...(that even work?)....uhhhh...you know, poor poor defending...but Carroll, fair play...knew what was on, and did it, no flap.
 
I think we'll see much more rottaion amongst our gazillion midfielders. About a third of the way thru the season we'll all be able to spot Kenny's thinking on "types of opposition" and who'll fit which system. It's a good thing we have width tho - for the right occassion.

ie - a crappy fullback or an unorganised back four - like the Chinese fellas. Downing in combination with Suarez's movement and Carroll's inituitive centre forward play - will split 'em any which way.
 
I see the point you're trying to make btw Redconn...I should explain - if a fullback is as isolated as whatever (excuse the poor analogy)...then a winger should most certainly use the space and creep inside. Obv.
 
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