How can we ever attribute the word "Great" to horses anymore. Ground not perfect, trainers/owners dodging any race that could conceivably end in defeat. Anything to ensure the horse retires to stud unbeaten with some G1s to his name. I wonder how many horses from the past would have gone down as "Greats" had they been campaigned in the same way?
No more Greats?
- Thread starter Ron
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I seen a great hose in b&q the other day; it was long, yellow and shiney but only had a one year warranty though which put me off & it's constantly pissing rain all the time so no real need for one
. Corrected. Cheers ste
The horse doesn't choose which race it gets run in, so I don't see how that can be an assertion to why a horse isn't a great. I don't think the unbeaten record is of much importance, but why would you risk Golden Horn on rain softened (a lot of rain too) ground when he still has the Arc/BC on the horizon. Simple fact is that for breeding, winning the King George, or Sussex Stakes isn't that big of a deal. I'd suggest winning the Juddmonte is better for a horse at stud than the King George, and the Sussex Stakes is often overlooked for other races.
Lets see what they do before they retire. Then perhaps we can have the debate about greatness through the ages (cue Andrew from Greenford)
Lets see what they do before they retire. Then perhaps we can have the debate about greatness through the ages (cue Andrew from Greenford)
It’s all very subjective though, isn’t it. Rather like beauty and fine art. You say po-tate-oh I say po-tart-oh.
Name any horse, jockey or trainer from the past 50 years and you’ll have some saying ‘by’eck he was out of top drawer’ and others saying ‘useless, don’t you know’.
As Ruby Walsh once said when told Kauto Star was rated by Timeform 20 lbs below Arkle (the horse not the former poster), ‘So what, that’s just their opinion’.
Name any horse, jockey or trainer from the past 50 years and you’ll have some saying ‘by’eck he was out of top drawer’ and others saying ‘useless, don’t you know’.
As Ruby Walsh once said when told Kauto Star was rated by Timeform 20 lbs below Arkle (the horse not the former poster), ‘So what, that’s just their opinion’.
Yep Barney - when Sea the Stars retired the forum's second favourite aussie, Jim McGrath, had this to say ""Farewell to a true champion. The perfect racehorse. Tough, clever and with acceleration like no other of his generation. Handicappers will rate some higher, but their methods rely purely on maths, and maths can't measure a horse like Sea The Stars." I could not agree more.
72 pints of Guinness in a weekend, the man has to be a national hero.
And the great Ted Dexter was an Italian for ****'s sake.
And the great Ted Dexter was an Italian for ****'s sake.
Chances of Golden horn running in the Arc are slim if they just withdrew for good to soft, chances of him running in the BC are practically non existent. He wasnt made for the Arc or the BC, he was made for the King George, that is the worst part.
The owner was out for weeks shouting how amazing it would be to win the King George because his company sponsored it or some pish, most of the people at the track were probably there to see him run.
It does look a decision to maximize breeding value, Gosdens comments after the race about him having to be "nearly a Leger horse" are just ridiculous.
I hope not but I wont be surprised if the Juddmonte is the last time you see him.
The owner was out for weeks shouting how amazing it would be to win the King George because his company sponsored it or some pish, most of the people at the track were probably there to see him run.
It does look a decision to maximize breeding value, Gosdens comments after the race about him having to be "nearly a Leger horse" are just ridiculous.
I hope not but I wont be surprised if the Juddmonte is the last time you see him.
I think we have seen a couple of greats in recent years, in the shape of Sea The Stars and Frankel. They will live on down the years as true champions and great horses. The main reason for this being, of course, their talent. But a vital part is also played by connections for doing exactly what Coolmore, Godolphin and so many other operations these days won't do - in the case of Sea The Stars, take him out of his comfort zone by going for those 6 Group 1s in 5 months, from 8 to 12 furlongs. In the case of Frankel, keep him in training as a 4YO and give racing fans the chance to see him on 5 more glorious occasions.
The pattern has destroyed top class racing. There should be fewer Group 1s, races like the Coronation Cup should be downgraded etc. . To prove you are a top class horse you need to win Group 1s. But that's been made too easy. The sprints at RA this year were an embarrassment.
Cut the number of Group 1s by 25% and get the buggers to run against each other. The KG was a Group 2 at best. The Group 2 at York was a Group 3 maybe...
Cut the number of Group 1s by 25% and get the buggers to run against each other. The KG was a Group 2 at best. The Group 2 at York was a Group 3 maybe...
I think you have hit the nail on the head Bustino. Too many G1s provides too easy an option to collect G1s without top horses having to compete against each other. Then you get the same old horses turning up for the place money.
I think what we all have to remember here is that this is a business where the bottom line is breeding. The huge companies that trade in the hundreds of millions of dollars have to be taken care of, and one of the best ways to do that, is to structure racing around group racing. None of the powers that be give a fling fig about what standard of champions we have. That yesterday's greats seem better than those of today means nothing, it's all about getting as many G1 into racing as possible without going overboard. Taking care of breeding needs has long been the backbone of racing. Plenty of arse kissing has to be done in order to keep all those petro dollars pouring in. Maybe that's a bit unfair, as this liberal scattering of G1 races is part and parcel of racing right across the planet. Supply and demand I suppose. Where's QM when we need him?
