Try before you buy......

[stjohnson]

Does this really work? We had our fingers burnt with Alderweireld we are now on about loaning Steven Caulker??? Surely if we consider him to be good enough get him signed up properly.

I know Osvaldo didnt work but i trust Ronald to secure the right deals at the right prices lets not let the Alderweireld situation happen again.

 

[saintlyhero]

The Toby loan was unusual because it featured the buy back option.
I very much doubt that Saints will be trying that again.
The reported Caulker deal is the more traditional agreed purchase price at the end of the loan.

 

[fatletiss]

I love the way people fear something just because once it didn't work out for us. The Toby situation was completely different; it was more like him trying rather than us trying.

Stjohnson - how did you think the Bertrand deal worked out?

Djruicic/Elia ?? If we hadn't tried we'd have "buyed" - it's a system that has worked far more than it has not for Saints.

Let's not have a knee jerk reaction just because we have an example of something that didn't go our way. Loan to buy is excellent I f one, you need urgent cover and may not want to invest completely and two, you are unsure if the player will work.

 

[Dell Boy]

I love the way people fear something just because once it didn't work out for us. The Toby situation was completely different; it was more like him trying rather than us trying.

Stjohnson - how did you think the Bertrand deal worked out?

Djruicic/Elia ?? If we hadn't tried we'd have "buyed" - it's a system that has worked far more than it has not for Saints.

Let's not have a knee jerk reaction just because we have an example of something that didn't go our way. Loan to buy is excellent I f one, you need urgent cover and may not want to invest completely and two, you are unsure if the player will work.

Nail on head.

 

[Saintjoey]

Nail on head.

Perhaps but it's still outrageously paradoxical. The ones that we deem to be successes, are the flops! Toby had an unbelievable season and we couldn't get him, I'd still argue that it was the biggest success story of them all because we got a player, really out of our league, for one season more than we ought to have done

 

[Dell Boy]

Perhaps but it's still outrageously paradoxical. The ones that we deem to be successes, are the flops! Toby had an unbelievable season and we couldn't get him, I'd still argue that it was the biggest success story of them all because we got a player, really out of our league, for one season more than we ought to have done

Totally agree with your comments on Toby, but Bertrand wasn't far behind him in terms of his displays for us whilst on loan?

 

[Beddy]

Trouble is perhaps when making these deals there is always an element of goodwill and trust. Over time I guess you learn which clubs you can trust that will play it straight and those you can't. A lesson we have recently learned.......I know we have been told that the centre back chose spurs. In my view though the deal was done and dusted and the player should not have even been allowed to speak to spurs. Just my opinion......It was a get out for AM to say he preferred spurs. Can't see Saints making the same mistake twice.

 

[fatletiss]

Perhaps but it's still outrageously paradoxical. The ones that we deem to be successes, are the flops! Toby had an unbelievable season and we couldn't get him, I'd still argue that it was the biggest success story of them all because we got a player, really out of our league, for one season more than we ought to have done

Oh poor Bertrand. I'll move him into my flop folder.

My point, even with the flops is that it proves the system works and is beneficial either way! Are you saying you'd have rather we purchased Elia and Felip?

 

[fatletiss]

Totally agree with your comments on Toby, but Bertrand wasn't far behind him in terms of his displays for us whilst on loan?

I'd say just above. He missed three games with suspension only.

 

[Onionman]

The elephant in the room that is being studiously ignored is the cost of purchases like Osvaldo and Ramirez. Dubious number perhaps, but the Echo claimed Osvaldo cost us £25m in total. I'd be much happier and Saints would have been a lot richer if we'd loaned him and realised that he was a barking mad egomaniac before we'd bought him. Same with Ramirez, the man who's always just about to show us how good he is.

When Taider turned up on loan and acted all prima-donna ish, we were able to ship him off our books within the week.

No, I like loans. Especially ones with a straight option to buy. They are the best of both worlds.

Vin

 

[ChilcoSaint]

The elephant in the room that is being studiously ignored is the cost of purchases like Osvaldo and Ramirez. Dubious number perhaps, but the Echo claimed Osvaldo cost us £25m in total. I'd be much happier and Saints would have been a lot richer if we'd loaned him and realised that he was a barking mad egomaniac before we'd bought him. Same with Ramirez, the man who's always just about to show us how good he is.

When Taider turned up on loan and acted all prima-donna ish, we were able to ship him off our books within the week.

No, I like loans. Especially ones with a straight option to buy. They are the best of both worlds.

Vin

My sentiments entirely. The one fly in the ointment with the Toby loan was giving Atletico the right to buy out the option to buy. That, of course, is academic, because the chances are we wouldn't have been able to loan him at all without that clause, but the main point stands. And I agree about Dani and Gastòn.

 

[Romsey_Saint]

Totally agree with your comments on Toby, but Bertrand wasn't far behind him in terms of his displays for us whilst on loan?

Bertrand also made the EPL team of the season... some must have thought he was better!

 

[stjohnson]

Ok i agree to some extent with the 'unknown' foreigners that it maybe a good idea but lets be honest we all knew the qualities that bertrand has and i think we all know the qualities that steven caulker has.

If for example we sign caulker on loan with an agreed 8m fee at the end of it , and he has a brilliant season whats to stop a top 6 side swooping in? The agreed fee side of things means nothing as if the player wishes to come out of the agreement ALA alderweireld then we are screwed.

I can see this argument has pros and cons but are we all 100 per cent convinced on Juanmi, Cedric, Martina and Clasie ??? If not then why are these not being brought in on loan?

 

[stjohnson]

I love the way people fear something just because once it didn't work out for us. The Toby situation was completely different; it was more like him trying rather than us trying.

Stjohnson - how did you think the Bertrand deal worked out?

Djruicic/Elia ?? If we hadn't tried we'd have "buyed" - it's a system that has worked far more than it has not for Saints.

Let's not have a knee jerk reaction just because we have an example of something that didn't go our way. Loan to buy is excellent I f one, you need urgent cover and may not want to invest completely and two, you are unsure if the player will work.

We all knew how good Bertrand was id have just spent the money on him from the start as it happened it didnt really matter , i take your point about Elia and Djuricic though. Although 4m for Elia would have been reasonable business i think

 

[fatletiss]

We all knew how good Bertrand was id have just spent the money on him from the start as it happened it didnt really matter , i take your point about Elia and Djuricic though. Although 4m for Elia would have been reasonable business i think

If you read back to the reaction to Saints signing Bertrand in this forum last summer, you'd have thought we'd taken a complete duffer on loan. A hell of a lot of people were moaning at taking him on loan, let alone signing him permanently for 10m.

There were only a few of us defending the signing, but nonetheless it is a great example of how loan to buy can work well, as the other two are good examples of players we may have signed but not wanted.

What was the fee set for Elia at the start of the loan period? I can't remember; was it 4m?

 

[Velcro Roy]

Ok i agree to some extent with the 'unknown' foreigners that it maybe a good idea but lets be honest we all knew the qualities that bertrand has and i think we all know the qualities that steven caulker has.

If for example we sign caulker on loan with an agreed 8m fee at the end of it , and he has a brilliant season whats to stop a top 6 side swooping in? The agreed fee side of things means nothing as if the player wishes to come out of the agreement ALA alderweireld then we are screwed.

I can see this argument has pros and cons but are we all 100 per cent convinced on Juanmi, Cedric, Martina and Clasie ??? If not then why are these not being brought in on loan?

In reply to your last line,maybe the selling club has some input? Just a thought.

 

[Dell Boy]

If you read back to the reaction to Saints signing Bertrand in this forum last summer, you'd have thought we'd taken a complete duffer on loan. A hell of a lot of people were moaning at taking him on loan, let alone signing him permanently for 10m.

There were only a few of us defending the signing, but nonetheless it is a great example of how loan to buy can work well, as the other two are good examples of players we may have signed but not wanted.

What was the fee set for Elia at the start of the loan period? I can't remember; was it 4m?

Must admit I was one of those who didn't rate him and thought it was a pretty poor signing, abeit a loan. Having been loaned out to several clubs he never impressed me at any of his former homes and I believed at the time that he would be mainly used as a back-up squad player.
Shows what I knowabout spotting a player?

 

[stjohnson]

If you read back to the reaction to Saints signing Bertrand in this forum last summer, you'd have thought we'd taken a complete duffer on loan. A hell of a lot of people were moaning at taking him on loan, let alone signing him permanently for 10m.

There were only a few of us defending the signing, but nonetheless it is a great example of how loan to buy can work well, as the other two are good examples of players we may have signed but not wanted.

What was the fee set for Elia at the start of the loan period? I can't remember; was it 4m?

I think it was 4m , 5m max

 

[Qwerty]

If we get past Vitesse and Dynamo Someone then suddenly our season gets 30% bigger. Some squad players that we don't have to keep for four years would be very nice.

I'm guessing we didn't sign Toby on loan because we weren't sure if he'd be good enough permanently either.

 

[OddRiverOakWizards]

Loans reduce the risk of picking up a flop but also increase the chance that if the player exceeds expectations we could lose out. So loans lead to mid-range quality! I think it is good to have some loan signings but it would be bad if we ended up relying on a large number.