Center Back Partnerships

[luvgonzo]

I just posted this in a thread but it's that nuts but also right IMO that I though I'd open it up to everyone.

I like Sakho but he also needs to improve, his passing is fantastic at times but he also dwells on the ball at times and gets caught in possession. Lovren has simply been poor but like I've said center back is all about the partnership Lovren was brilliant alongside Fonte because the combination was right, Terry and Cahill are great because the combination is right and you can take that back through the ages.

We have to find the right combination or get 2 of them to work it out so that they work well together slating our individuals is pointles it's down to the manager to find one "head the ball" and one "controller" and get them playing together week after week.

When I coached I used an attack dog scenario (bear with me here), one center back was the handler and he controlled the dog telling him when to go attack or reigning him in and making him keep his position.

So now look at our center backs.

This is getting silly I am aware of that.

Skrtel - Dog
Lovren - Dog
Toure - Old and useless
Sakho - Dog - Potential handler
Illori - Handler

So basically we're ****ed the only handler we have is too young in Illori so the combination is never going to be right, solving this can be done with a good screen in front of the center backs like the old Rafa formation but we don't have those players either. We will still concede goals this season imo so have to score more.

Illori - Sakho may work but it would be a risk as both are quite young and Illori would really need a big pair to reign Sakho in.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

I would give Ilori a chance now - put him alongside Sakho and let them develop. No point persisting with Skrtel because he won't be here for long (with any luck).

Sakho's injuries are a concern though.

Lovren was awful at Lyon and they were lucky Soton paid £8m for him. He largely poor for Soton bar 6 months when Soton had a fully fit Wanyama and Schneiderlin ahead of - once Wanyama was injured, Lovren was sh*T again.

 

[luvgonzo]

I would give Ilori a chance now - put him alongside Sakho and let them develop. No point persisting with Skrtel because he won't be here for long (with any luck).

Sakho's injuries are a concern though.

Lovren was awful at Lyon and they were lucky Soton paid £8m for him. He largely poor for Soton bar 6 months when Soton had a fully fit Wanyama and Schneiderlin ahead of - once Wanyama was injured, Lovren was sh*T again.

Yeah this is down to the "screen" I mentioned in front. I don't think he was bad though Lovren is not a bad player he just needs the right partner, I could be wrong but we at least need to try it.

Illori - Lovren again is an option with the combination I'm on about but a big risk.

As soon as you put 2 dogs in though like we did last season the holes and gaps in the defence happen as neither understands when to hold position and just wants to attack every ball they also don't understand how to cover each other its a massive mess.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Sakho is not a dog - he's intelligent. Lovren and Skrtel are headless dogs though. Neither possess good judgement or positioning.

Skrtel is good in the middle of a back 3, or in a back 2 if alongside someone who he listens to (i.e. Carra, Agger).

We've been poor defensively for a few years now, and that's using so-called experienced players. I want us to be bold and play Clyne - Ilori - Sakho - Digne (If rumours are true).

It's risky but none more so than if we keep as is.

 

[luvgonzo]

Sakho is not a dog - he's intelligent

Like I said in the OP he's somewhere inbetween for me and he will get better and read the game very well in the future but at this point he's more dog than handler imo and will go attack the ball when he should hold at times.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Like I said in the OP he's somewhere inbetween for me and he will get better and read the game very well in the future but at this point he's more dog than handler imo and will go attack the ball when he should hold at times.

He attacks the ball but that's his style - he's the aggressor and more times than not, he will win. That's because a) he has great judgement and b) he's technically very good in that he wins the ball cleanly.

What he needs is a sweeper next to him to compliment him - Ilori can play that role.

 

[luvgonzo]

He attacks the ball but that's his style - he's the aggressor and more times than not, he will win. That's because a) he has great judgement and b) he's technically very good in that he wins the ball cleanly.

What he needs is a sweeper next to him to compliment him - Ilori can play that role.

I agree and that's why he's more dog than handler, I think he has more to his game though and will eventually understand when to hold without someone in his ear telling him so. I agree that the potential combination of him and Illori is interesting but there's no chance of Rodgers taking that chance.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

I agree and that's why he's more dog than handler, I think he has more to his game though and will eventually understand when to hold without someone in his ear telling him so. I agree that the potential combination of him and Illori is interesting but there's no chance of Rodgers taking that chance.

Ilori should be given games at CB this season - really looking forward to seeing how he develops. Potential to become a top CB.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

I totally agree that in this league having one attack the ball and go mark the big man is the way to go.

hyypia in 2009 did this with carreghr. he had no pace and was sturrgling until he stepped 5 yards up, just end and attacked all high balls and let carragher sweep up.

My view strongly is lovern does not back off and retreat he step up to the challenge on the ground or in the air. he needs to play that way.

I thin the analogy luv is using is a good one.

I feel that sahko is very much an attack dog. we have seen rodgers out on side line when we had a 3 telling him to stop ****ing going forward.

I do agree we have ZERO "handlers" not one of our lot i would call a sweeper or organiser or whatever you want to say.

skertl is a reasonably good player but not all that agressive despite the rep. he can be bullied in the air. he can alos foul cynically.

I would have put agger down as an attack dog too.

William carvalho made terry look awesome at cheslea. cahill make him look weaker. cheslea are less defensively sound than mourinho wants as neither can tiy up around.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

This is the one thing jimmy and I agree on. Skrtel is pants and sakho is very good while would like to see ilori get some game time this year.

Im still holding out hope that lovren can't be that bad and will be alright but he'll never be a 20m defender.

Skrtel is good when the middle Man of a back 3 as he can just concentrate on heading the ball when it comes near him and passing it sidewards when he gets it. His forward passing is poor which slows things down and makes it easy to defend against when we have the ball.

I I remember a clip 2 years ago of tony pullis saying when they played is? They let Skrtel have the ball as they knew his passing was poor. This meant that they just didn't give him an easy pass to open player and pressed as soon as he made that pass.

 

[luvgonzo]

Skrtel is good when the middle Man of a back 3 as he can just concentrate on heading the ball when it comes near him and passing it sidewards when he gets it.

Agreed but we really shouldn't be paying that formation on a regular basis.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Agreed but we really shouldn't be paying that formation on a regular basis.

I'd say at all. Means could be hard to fit players like Ibe and markovic into the squad and they need game time.

433 or 4231 please

 

[luvgonzo]

I'd say at all. Means could be hard to fit players like Ibe and markovic into the squad and they need game time.

433 or 4231 please

I think it's useful to see a game out and that's about it.

 

[DirtyFrank]

What about Gomez and Wisdom, where do they fit into this analogy?

 

[luvgonzo]

What about Gomez and Wisdom, where do they fit into this analogy?

Both tend to be played as full backs at the moment but both are center backs.

Gomez is a handler and Wisdom a dog. So future partnership maybe.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Other than he's young, a Gomez, Sakho partnership sounds interesting....Very mobile, athletic and physically dominant.

 

[luvgonzo]

Other than he's young, a Gomez, Sakho partnership sounds interesting....Very mobile, athletic and physically dominant.

I agree, no ****ing chance of it happening though.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Gomez looks like he might be getting a few chances at FB (either RB or LB) going by pre-season. Makes sense given that's where he played 1st team football at Charlton but can see him doing a bit of a Carragher. Playing football, learning your trade and positioning there where it's less of an issue if you make an error and then in a few years move into the centre.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

This is the one thing jimmy and I agree on. Skrtel is pants and sakho is very good while would like to see ilori get some game time this year.

Im still holding out hope that lovren can't be that bad and will be alright but he'll never be a 20m defender.

Skrtel is good when the middle Man of a back 3 as he can just concentrate on heading the ball when it comes near him and passing it sidewards when he gets it. His forward passing is poor which slows things down and makes it easy to defend against when we have the ball.

I I remember a clip 2 years ago of tony pullis saying when they played is? They let Skrtel have the ball as they knew his passing was poor. This meant that they just didn't give him an easy pass to open player and pressed as soon as he made that pass.

That is one area I agree with Jimmy too actually. I just don't think he's quite as bad as jimmy makes out, plus its fun winding him up

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

That is one area I agree with Jimmy too actually. I just don't think he's quite as bad as jimmy makes out, plus its fun winding him up

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