Rival watch
- Thread starter Spurlock
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I agree with a lot of what people are saying about van Gaal's luck and especially after spending over £200m since he's been at the club, you'd expect them to be challenging this season.
That being said, I think he deserves a bit of credit. It was his first season at the club, coming off the back of a season where United had finished 7th and were in freefall, he had no idea what his best team was or how useful most of the players would be. He still made a lot of mistakes and I still have questions over his man management skills and tactical proficiency but, whether he stumbled across a winning formula due to injuries or not, he found a team which were getting good results over a period of time which was vital in them securing the coveted 4th spot. Ultimately that was their fundamental objective for last season and he got it, luck or no luck.
If United had finished one position lower, he would have been heavily scrutinised for this upcoming season but getting that 4th spot means the expectation is for them to challenge this season and have a good cup run. Frankly, if he has another season like the one that just went by after spending large sums of money yet again, he could be given the boot.
That being said, I think he deserves a bit of credit. It was his first season at the club, coming off the back of a season where United had finished 7th and were in freefall, he had no idea what his best team was or how useful most of the players would be. He still made a lot of mistakes and I still have questions over his man management skills and tactical proficiency but, whether he stumbled across a winning formula due to injuries or not, he found a team which were getting good results over a period of time which was vital in them securing the coveted 4th spot. Ultimately that was their fundamental objective for last season and he got it, luck or no luck.
If United had finished one position lower, he would have been heavily scrutinised for this upcoming season but getting that 4th spot means the expectation is for them to challenge this season and have a good cup run. Frankly, if he has another season like the one that just went by after spending large sums of money yet again, he could be given the boot.
Is spending £150m at a club like Utd to only then finish 4th place really deserving of any credit? I'm not sure it is. With players like Rooney, Falcao, Di Maria, Mata and van Persie all there at the time, I'd have expected much more than 4th if I were a Utd fan. He finished in what I feel was the bare minimum for Man Utd and the reputation he has as a manager. Depending on huge investment doesn't really signal that he deserves much credit in my opinion, I'm sure most managers in the world could achieve relative success if they're given a transfer kitty at a huge club which allows them to attract pretty much anyone they'd like.
Also bearing in mind that Man Utd went out of both domestic cups relatively early and didn't have any European football to distract them then only getting 4th very late on is actually pretty poor bearing in mind the players they have. Even if you take into account the fact that any defence that has Jones and Smalling in it should be fighting relegation.
I'm not saying van Gaal pulled up any trees - 4th was what he was expected to get though, and at the end of the day, whether it was flukey or not, he got what he needed. That was the club's objective and they got it.
They played dour football at times and he wanted to incorporate a 3-5-2 with the wrong players, rather than playing a system which best suits the players he has. He made mistakes and a number of poor decisions. There are also question marks over his man management skills.
But what I am saying is that given the circumstances, he does deserve some credit for what he did. Baring in mind everyone had already written them off by January, he managed to turn it around.
Can I also make the point that throwing money at something doesn't mean it will instantaneously go your way? Yes he spent a lot on players, but a manager still needs to advise those players, help develop them, keep them on board, give them sufficient game time and coach their abilities.
Given that he has a track record of falling out with players when things don't go his way, he still managed to turn things around and get the results for CL qualification, including beating us, you, Liverpool home and away and City. I think they actually had the best record against the top 6.
They played dour football at times and he wanted to incorporate a 3-5-2 with the wrong players, rather than playing a system which best suits the players he has. He made mistakes and a number of poor decisions. There are also question marks over his man management skills.
But what I am saying is that given the circumstances, he does deserve some credit for what he did. Baring in mind everyone had already written them off by January, he managed to turn it around.
Can I also make the point that throwing money at something doesn't mean it will instantaneously go your way? Yes he spent a lot on players, but a manager still needs to advise those players, help develop them, keep them on board, give them sufficient game time and coach their abilities.
Given that he has a track record of falling out with players when things don't go his way, he still managed to turn things around and get the results for CL qualification, including beating us, you, Liverpool home and away and City. I think they actually had the best record against the top 6.
PSG in for Stambouli?...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...amin-stambouli-bid-made-by-psg-latest-rumours
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...amin-stambouli-bid-made-by-psg-latest-rumours
Sorry BG, but I'm not buying that Man Utd's objective was to finish 4th.
They outspent everyone in the division after having done so already in previous seasons and had no European football to trouble them.
Van Gaal had a massive squad full of big names and he vastly underperformed, in my opinion.
He ended up getting dug out towards the end of the campaign when he stumbled on a system that worked, due to injuries and suspensions.
That it involved playing Allardyce-style 1900s football should be another strike against him, in my opinion.
A team with the likes of Rooney, van Persie, Falcao, Di Maria, Mata and the like hoofing it to a big man and chasing flick-ons is close to sacrilege.
I'll give him credit for a lot of post-match honesty and he's probably worked out where a lot of his problems came from, too.
He did the bare minimum and with a couple of major embarrassments along the way.
Definitely needs to up his game and was probably spared a lot of press stick by others making a bigger mess of things.
You know as well as I do that it is not common for a team to go from 7th to title challengers in one season. Liverpool did it, but how often does that happen? And even then, we have seen how much of an influence that one world class player had on that side. Throwing money at a problem won't mean it gets resolved. There are other factors to take into account as well.
I agree with most of what you're saying here but given that they had a horrendous season under Moyes and lacked any direction whatsoever, it is slightly unfair to expect a manager who was brand new to the league to instantly become title challengers. We'll never find out, but I think United's objective was to get Champions League first and foremost, especially with the Adidas deal saying that if they didn't for 2 seasons, they wouldn't get the £750m deal. It was harder work than it needed to be, but they still got there. This season they can focus more on playing better football and competing.
I think they will struggle if drawn into a tough CL group. Too many players in key positions with too little experience of successfully juggling a title challenge and respectable CL campaign.
I'm making particularly close reference here to almost their entire defense.
It's not that simple.
Utd lost Vidic, Rio, Evra, Scholes, Giggs in a short space of time and Carrick and RvP got older and suffered lengthy injuries.
Rebuilding will be a slow process. Getting 4th stabilises things because of the CL place. But Utd were in contention for 2nd going into May - so it wasn't too bad at all.
He's signed some top class players - and potentially top class players. A top drawer centre half and Utd are genuine contenders.
You crashed out of the League Cup early and was knocked out a few games into the FA and you also had no European football.
Rebuilding is a slow process, granted you guys lost Vidic, Rio, Evra, Scholes and Giggs in a matter of seasons but you splashed out mega bucks in recent seasons on players like Herrera, Di Maria, Mata, Rojo, Blind, Shaw, Fellaini, plus the loan for Falcao, not all teams have that capability and expectations will be very high when players like that join, hence their big price tags and wages, plus van Gaal's reputation as a winner, I personally feel 4th place for Utd just wasn't good enough.
Going to be interesting to see how you do this season, especially with even more high profile additions with more I presume to come. Realistically I know we don't stand a chance of winning it so out of the big clubs I'd much prefer Utd to win the Prem and with the money you guys have invested, that has to be the target in my opinion, any lower than 2nd and I think you've underachieved.
Gonna go out on a limb here and say ALL your players got older.
Ancelotti, Pellegrini and Mourinho all came in from abroad and won the league first try and plenty more have challenged for the title in their first season too.
Taking over a team that has badly underachieved is surely easier. Especially when you inherit a midfield and attack that won the league 2 years ago in addition to a bucket load of cash.
Moyes was very unfortunate at United, Edward Woodward(Ewarwoowar, if you will) wasted a hell of a lot of time on unrealistic targets and didn't get anyone in until the last day of the window. I still have my doubts over whether Moyes even wanted Fellaini since being Everton manager he'd have known the terms of the release clause yet they let that expire when they could've signed him for less at any point in that window. He also didn't have the support of the squad up until the end of the season like Van Gaal did, there were even suggestions that United had taken their decision to sack him as early as February which can't have been easy. In short, compared to Moyes, Van Gaal had every possible advantage he could've wished for.
Maybe Moyes is just better suited to working to tighter budgets and lower expectation but he's still a good manager and was treated poorly at United from start to finish.
Van Gaal might've been under pressure to finish in the top 4 last season but the real pressure kicks in now and on the evidence of last season he's got a lot of work to do.
I'm sorry, but the circumstances just aren't the same here. This is a false parallel. Mourinho came in when Chelsea had finished 2nd the season before, Pellegrini came in when City had finished runners-up in the league and Ancelotti when Chelsea had finished 3rd. Going from 7th to 1st is not common at all, it is a lot easier to do when your squad has more stability and does not consist of mediocrity. I actually can't believe I'm defending van Gaal here having been a staunch critic of him throughout the season.
Let me just make the point that contrary to what his reputation is, I don't think he is a world class manager. I'm a staunch Wenger critic also, but I think Wenger is a better manager than van Gaal. I will, however, give credit where it's due. Even if it's minimal.
A side who overachieved due to the man management and shrewdness of arguably the greatest manager of all time. Even in the season United won the league, they still needed to strengthen certain areas of their squad. In any case, as LDL has said, all of their senior players had pretty much left or were ageing. However, I do accept that they spent a lot of money and had an advantage crashing out of the domestic cup competitions early and having no European football. He deserves criticism for that, but one could argue this was a period where he was trying to familiarise himself with his players. Should he have done this quicker? Debatably so.
Yup, I agree.
Decent start for West Ham. Managing to keep it 0-0 after an hour against the mighty Hirkakra of Malta
Won 1 nil with a 90th minute goal...will now have to take the whole 1st team abroad next week!
Not good for them
Not good for them
H
Hoddle is a god
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Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho has left winger Mohamed Salah out of the squad for the pre-season tour of the USA after the 23-year-old refused to join Fiorentina on loan.
(Source: Evening Standard)
So, the lad refuses to go out on loan, chosing, instead, to stay at the Bridge and fight for his place in the first team. His reward is to be excluded from the squad and, effectively, reduced to the reserves!
Superb man-management, Jose!
Is Salah any good? Ought we to be taking advantage of the situation and putting in a cheeky bid for him?
(Source: Evening Standard)
So, the lad refuses to go out on loan, chosing, instead, to stay at the Bridge and fight for his place in the first team. His reward is to be excluded from the squad and, effectively, reduced to the reserves!
Superb man-management, Jose!
Is Salah any good? Ought we to be taking advantage of the situation and putting in a cheeky bid for him?
He tore us to shreds twice when he played for Basel, then returned for the sucker punch last year at Fiorentina. Would love to have him at Spurs if only to stop him scoring against us! Definitely a step up from Lamela imo but no way Jose will Chelsea do business with us.
The Chavs are not having much luck, apparently. Everton have turned down a £20mill bid for Stones, according to SSN.