he won the Eclipse by about 5 lentghs Ron, so I think he was a very capable horse. If we are just going on ratings, then Dancing Brave shouldn't be favourite, as Brigadier Gerard was rated superior to him, and Sea The Stars for that matter.
The Eclipse was Nashwan’s only start over ten furlongs and he had the race set up for him by Opening Verse (Indian Skimmer failed to overhaul him for second). Remember Nashwan’s next race when he just held off Cacoethes, who had been third at Epsom with 500/1 shot Terimon second? If we are going to use ratings, somebody with a bookshelf of Timeform publications will have to look up the best ratings obtained by each individual horse when winning the Eclipse as there was no International Classification before 1977. In terms of best career Timeform ratings, Brigadier Gerard was rated 144 (one pound behind Sea-Bird II) whilst Dancing Brave and Sea The Stars were rated 140; although one suspects that none of those figures were achieved at Sandown.
They are just my prices, in response to the OP, ratings were not considered. "Imagine you are a bookmaker How would you price an Eclipse containing these legends?" Bar Sea The Stars they are all before my time so can only go on videos and hearsay. I was only born the year Nashwan won and the price ive got him at shows the strength of the race! No insult to be 9/1 in that field.
The Timeform ratings (and any others) are based purely on what has been achieved. The bare rating does not reflect what the horse is capable of. Anything other than actual achievement is pure speculation and subjective (eg Timeform's small "p" and the large "P" and the "+" provides an indication that a horse is capable of better but nothing quantitative). My very subjective judgement says Dancing Brave and that is where I would put my money. And as no-one can prove that he wouldn't have won - unlike my fancies for present day races - I can be adamant that he would have won
Point missed: what I meant was find out what rating each of the horses achieved on the day that it won the Eclipse (or the best of the two ratings for the two dual winners). This would tell you who put up the best performance at Sandown in the Eclipse. Whether they could have done better in Timeform’s opinion could just be ignored. When Mtoto won in 1987, he had an outstanding pacemaker – the Derby winner Reference Point – whereas Dancing Brave probably beat Triptych by further when winning in 1986. Using Patrick Biancone’s filly/mare for a form line, Mtoto would not have won the 1986 renewal.
2/1 Sea The Stars 3/1 Dancing Brave 6/1 Mill Reef 13/2 Brigadier Gerard 8/1 Nashwan 12/1 Mtoto 16/1 Halling 20/1 Sadlers Wells 25/1 Giant's Causeway Like The Kaiser I wasn't alive to witness most of them and only have stories and old videos. I would have Sea The Stars as the one to beat because I believe he'd find more no matter who came at him
I was actually responding to Shergs QM (should have done a "reply to", sorry). I know what you meant and it would be interesting (but again it would only indicate what they actually achieved over course and distance, which may not necessarily have been when they were at their best). I'm assuming that it's assumed they all turn up and all run to their full potential. Maybe Corals should run this virtual race with different scenarios to see if they come up with the same answer each time. If they did come up with the same answer I would just ignore them. In fact we can ignore anyone who supposedly comes up with the winner if it isn't to our liking.
If I was to call the winner I'd side with Brigadier Gerard, even though I think Nashwan is overpriced. Its ashame Dubai Millennium never raced in the eclipse, as he was my favourite 10 furlong horse. I don't think any of those horses listed would have got anywhere near him
3/1 Dancing Brave, I wish, that is a retirement fund/pension/lottery win. Put me in for my whole bank account and I will crowd fund it as well.
here is their Derby one, not sure if it was posted already with the Epsom meeting. I would of had Mill Reef or Nijinsky, then Shergar.
They got the right winner of the legends Derby, I just don't think it would have been as close as that. Shergar would have been atleast 5 lentghs ahead around Epsom
Methinks one hundred groats on Dancing Brave. I also have a stock of Deutschmarks however bearing in mind the 'knowledgeable' comments on another thread I think I will retain them under my matress!
Giants Causeway 25s, outsider of the field STH?!!! I suggest you check out the races this guy won, try Wikipedia
