The Rooney Rule

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THURNBY YELLOW

THURNBY YELLOW

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2014
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Thurnby, Leicestershire
Apparently the Football league (hear this Ipswich fans) are looking to adopt this American based system which means that when a club have a managerial vacancy they will have to include one black candidate in the process. My immediate reaction to this is one of outrage and I would be interested to hear your views. I understand the principle to a minor degree as black managers are very much under-represented but to force the issue in this way is one that riles me tremendously.
It smacks to me of a very bad Labour Party initiative some years ago which was All Women Shortlists for Parliamentary Candidate elections. This form of discrimination solves nothing but antagonises the very system they are trying to improve. Follow this principle for the manager's position and we could end up with a black candidate, a woman, a disabled person and a gay on the shortlist. This idea surely has to stamped on immediately, but am I out of line here?
 
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You are certainly not out of line Thurnby, positive discrimination is just as bad as negative. I don't for one minute believe that the reason there are not many managers from black and ethnic minorities is because of racism. I would be interested to know how many black people actually APPLY for the jobs when they become available ? It won't be long before clubs are forced to field so many female players at this rate ! Mind you, the day that happens will be the day I walk away from football forever <doh>
 
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These are pretty worrying times really KIO and if the FA go all PC to be whiter than FIFA (not difficult obviously) you actually wonder if some of our worst fears just might come to fruition. God help us!
 
THURNBY YELLOW said:
Apparently the Football league (hear this Ipswich fans) are looking to adopt this American based system which means that when a club have a managerial vacancy they will have to include one black candidate in the process. My immediate reaction to this is one of outrage and I would be interested to hear your views. I understand the principle to a minor degree as black managers are very much under-represented but to force the issue in this way is one that riles me tremendously.
It smacks to me of a very bad Labour Party initiative some years ago which was All Women Shortlists for Parliamentary Candidate elections. This form of discrimination solves nothing but antagonises the very system they are trying to improve. Follow this principle for the manager's position and we could end up with a black candidate, a woman, a disabled person and a gay on the shortlist. This idea surely has to stamped on immediately, but am I out of line here?
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You did well up until there...
 
KIO said:
You are certainly not out of line Thurnby, positive discrimination is just as bad as negative. I don't for one minute believe that the reason there are not many managers from black and ethnic minorities is because of racism. I would be interested to know how many black people actually APPLY for the jobs when they become available ? It won't be long before clubs are forced to field so many female players at this rate ! Mind you, the day that happens will be the day I walk away from football forever <doh>
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I guess this means you will not be watching the upcoming World Cup from Canada. Me neither.
 
Personally I'm a huge fan of the Rooney rule, it's been incredibly effective in the states and is very much not "positive discrimination"

The Rooney rule requires a candidate from ethnic minorities to be interview for a job, no quotas for giving the job or obligation beyond that. It just opens the door wider and presents a level playing field from there on.

In the states it has had a great effect through the organisations. Largely with black people's increase exposure leading to them filling far more positions, interestingly often not just the one they interviewed for.

The reductio ad absurdism argument that we'll end up with a shortlist including women and gay people is pure daily mail. There's no way it will go that way however it is clear that there is a large percentage of black players and a small percentage of black managers that need redressing and this is a very fair mechanism to do it.
 
Bath-Canary said:
Personally I'm a huge fan of the Rooney rule, it's been incredibly effective in the states and is very much not "positive discrimination"

The Rooney rule requires a candidate from ethnic minorities to be interview for a job, no quotas for giving the job or obligation beyond that. It just opens the door wider and presents a level playing field from there on.
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So it is 'positive discrimination' then.
 
They don't have to employ anyone for any reason other than the been the best candidate. So no discrimination what so ever. It just lets people set out their case that they are that candidate.
 
Bath-Canary said:
They don't have to employ anyone for any reason other than the been the best candidate. So no discrimination what so ever. It just lets people set out their case that they are that candidate.
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But they do have to interview on the basis of ethnicity, etc, there's the discrimination...it's not that difficult.
 
In the case where a company (read football club) operates a policy whereby they shortlist candidates based on an application and will not interview more than say six people, and a black person wanted to be a manager they would apply for the job, and would be selected for an interview on merit if they are one the best six candidates. To ensure that at least one black person does get interviewed can not be anything other than positive discrimination, should it mean that a more qualified person may have taken that interview slot but cannot because he is not black, merely for the company to appear 'inclusive'.
 
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ThaiCanary said:
In the case where a company (read football club) operates a policy whereby they shortlist candidates based on an application and will not interview more than say six people, and a black person wanted to be a manager they would apply for the job, and would be selected for an interview on merit if they are one the best six candidates. To ensure that at least one black person does get interviewed can not be anything other than positive discrimination, should it mean that a more qualified person may have taken that interview slot but cannot because he is not black, merely for the company to appear 'inclusive'.
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I would imagine that at at the end of the day, most companies/football clubs would interview on merit, not on some pc agenda, I would certainly hope so.
 
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ThaiCanary said:
In the case where a company (read football club) operates a policy whereby they shortlist candidates based on an application and will not interview more than say six people, and a black person wanted to be a manager they would apply for the job, and would be selected for an interview on merit if they are one the best six candidates. To ensure that at least one black person does get interviewed can not be anything other than positive discrimination, should it mean that a more qualified person may have taken that interview slot but cannot because he is not black, merely for the company to appear 'inclusive'.
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What part of the rule says how many people can be interviewed. No body loses out.
 
THURNBY YELLOW said:
Apparently the Football league (hear this Ipswich fans) are looking to adopt this American based system which means that when a club have a managerial vacancy they will have to include one black candidate in the process.
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Other than the fairness or otherwise argument...........in the current climate, there could easily be anywhere from about 6 to 16 managers that lose their job in the Championship in a single season - I am not sure there are that many black managers in circulation, certainly not with the experience and/or record to warrant an interview.
 
wellyblue said:
So the'rule' (if that's what it is) is meaningless then.
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It's about exposure not quotas. It's not meaningless but it's also not the imposition some are making out

ThaiCanary said:
I said in the case where it is policy. I know many companies will only interview a predefined number of candidates due to time and cost, and to 'impose' a quota based on any given 'classification' can only undermine that company policy.
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I doubt that football clubs have many such quotas and if they do they alread struggle from the same issue that they miss a good candidate due to bureaucracy.
 
I may be being a tad naive but how do employers ascertain the ethnicity of a candidate? If I get terry Connor's CV how do I know what ethnic group he comes from? Is it legal to ask all applicants to put their ethnic origin on application forms? Surely if there is racism then this would be counter productive?

Can't say I am a huge fan of the concept of positive discrimination. The best person for the job should get it regardless of race gender etc.

I think that we will see more and more non white managers in the game as more players get their coaching badges although given the amount of cash most top players now earn I can see fewer of them electing to go into management.
 
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