The UK workforce. Presumably some of these 30-40 yr olds are employed, some not. Again, people of whatever age in the UK die from a myriad of causes. These people in Qatar are all dying from the same cause. They are maltreated, over worked, and put in dangerous situations that would never be permitted in Europe. All in pursuit of building stadia for this monument to corruption. As PNP says, these are only estimates ( quite likely underestimates ) as the Qataris won't allow any factual information to be gathered.
I don’t doubt that the worker death rate would be higher among a group who tend to be recent immigrants, many of them illegal, whether in the US, Europe, or anywhere else. The people lowest in any society’s hierarchy take the most dangerous and least regulated jobs.
Hi fellas was wondering if any of you could help me out with identifying some of the signatures...a few are obvious but any help appreciated !!
Aye defo Sandro, bale, woodgate, Gomes, BAE, Ledley , even pletikosa(sorry bout spelling) it's the 2011/2012 team I believe
You are still missing the point which is that the data do not support the assertion that the immigrant workforce is badly treated in Qatar. Apparently this subject is going to be on the More or Less programme on BBC R4 this afternoon. This is a very well respected programme that explains how statistics are often misused. Judging by the trailer on yesterday's PM programme they are going to say that the death rate amongst Indian workers in Qatar is 4 times lower than that amongst a similar group at home in India. If that is true (and it sound very plausible) then this leaves the facts of the situation being that the world cup construction programme is saving the lives of poor Indians (and likely Nepalese too). This leads into an interesting moral maze along the lines of 'is that good enough or do we require the Qatari's to treat their workforce as well as the UK would treat its own' and 'If the World Cup gets taken away from Qatar who is responsible for the thousands of Indians who will lose their jobs and their lives'. I repeat that this whole discussion is completely independent of whether FIFA is corrupt or whether Qatar should be awarded the tournament. I'm just keen to see the evidence presented correctly.
My favourite posts on here are those that challenge orthodox thinking. Don't always agree with Croydon and Power but you are both very interesting reads even if what much of what you say is counter intuitive . Anything that makes me think again about position I hold glibly is great. Again, the debates on the run up to the Scottish Independence referendum were fascinating. Occasionally I learn about football too!
Glad to be of service. If everyone agreed with me I wouldn't learn anything and it would seem hardly worth going to the trouble of having the discussion board.
I repeat, whatever the figures say ( please refer to Lies, damn lies, and statistics ) these people are dying at a rate, being treated in a manner, including being forcibly detained, that would not be allowed in any civilised country in the world. I really don't see what India has to do with this, they haven't been awarded a W/C by the supposed ruling body of the world's largest, richest sport. Qatar, however, has. With that should come the responsibilities too. If you really believe that there is no connection between Qatar's enormous wealth, and the already proven to be corrupt FIFA awarding them the 2022 W/C, then you really are living in cloud cuckoo land. The 2022 W/C was bought and paid for, pure and simple! I would also add again, as has been said, that as the Qataris won't allow any monitoring or collecting of data ( I wonder why!) these figures are purely an estimate.
The death rate claimed by the International Trade Unions Confederation is agreed by everyone to be the actual death rate of the immigrant population in Qatar from ALL CAUSES. I don't know why you think this figure is just an estimate or why you think it is uncertain or unchecked. The Qatari claim that there have been no deaths on the actual stadia sites is actually really quite likely as little construction work has actually taken place. Its all very well to claim that "these people are dying at a rate, being treated in a manner, including being forcibly detained, that would not be allowed in any civilised country in the world" but actually 'these people' wouldn't even get past the border in the UK because we don't allow it. The reason why India is relevant is that Indian workers flock to Qatar because it is so much better than India for them. I'm sure they will be over-joyed that you want to cut off their source of employment on spurious grounds. I've never said that there is no connection between Qatar's wealth and the World Cup. Of course there is. But stick to facts when making the argument rather than opinions.
The thing is, there's actually a very simple way to avoid this - stick more rigidly to FIFA's stadium criteria for staging a World Cup which, according to their website, is... FIFA has a number of requirements for stadiums hosting World Cup games. One of these is capacity. FIFA requires that a venue hosting the opening game and the final must have a net capacity of at least 80,000. For the other group matches, last 16, quarter finals and the match for third place the requirement is at least 40,000, and FIFA requests a net capacity of at least 60,000 for venues hosting the semifinals. What they should be specifying is that these stadiums should either... a.) Have been built or are already under construction prior to the bid being submitted b.) Require minimal upgrading work to get them to that capacity - let's say as a rule of thumb that no stadium which needs its capacity increased by 25% or more to meet these criteria should be considered as a venue With those two guidelines in place, let's look at the stadia for Qatar's bid... 80,000-capacity stadium - not yet built 60,000-capacity stadium - expanding the 40,000-capacity Khalifa International Stadium to 68,000-capacity 40,000-capacity stadiums - eight not yet built, plus a couple of 21,000-capacity stadiums are being doubled in capacity Nine of their stadiums weren't built prior to their bid being submitted, and three are being expanded by more than 25% of their current capacity to meet the criteria. On that alone, Qatar are disqualified as hosts. Looking beyond saying who can and cannot host a World Cup, there's also several longer-term benefits for nations if these guidelines were introduced, such as... i.) A country won't be ruining their own economy to stage a World Cup ii.) Less large-scale construction projects reduces the chances of people being injured or killed in construction accidents (in theory...) iii.) White elephants won't be cluttering the landscape as happened with South Africa and Brazil (as well as Portugal for Euro 2004) iv.) Clubs won't be mortgaging their futures by expanding their stadiums far beyond their average gate, such as The FA expecting Plymouth to expand Home Park from their current capacity of 19,000 (which has at least 6000 empty seats for every home game) to a capacity of 46,000 v.) Countries could agree to split the difference and co-host the World Cup, meaning the cost will be spread while two countries receive the economic benefit of hosting a World Cup. Three of the last four European Championships have had co-hosts, while the Spain/Portugal bid for 2018 certainly could've worked as they had several stadiums that either already fulfilled the criteria (Nou Camp, Bernebeu, La Cartuja, Lluis Companys in Spain, Estadio de Luiz, Estadio do Dragao and Estadio Jose Avalade in Portugal) while Valencia, Bilbao and Atletico were building new stadiums that qualified under these criteria prior to the bid being submitted It's so simple that it's no surprise FIFA never thought of it.
In FIFA's case I think there's probably a more basic criteria they've been working to - how much is in it for them personally?
Well, here's some facts from the benevolent state of Qatar, reported only a few days ago. These workers are held under the Kafala system whereby their passports are confiscated and they have to work under the conditions specified by their employer ( as Qatar is an absolute monarchy, that means the state) it has already been called modern slavery. Maybe you find all this acceptable? I don't! http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...-2022-reveals-exploitation-of-workers/6511660 Qatari claims that not one worker has died are just laughable. Or they would be if it weren't for the fact that it's the deaths of human beings they're talking about.
The USA were losing 3-1 in the Netherlands last night, when Klinsmann made a number of changes, including the introduction of DeAndre Yedlin. Final score? 4-3 to the visitors, with two of their goals coming in the last couple of minutes. The young right-back got the assist for the Americans' second goal. Can Brad Guzan catch anything?
Add to that Blatter thinking putting his legacy first, as he'll be the guy who gave Africa and the Middle East the World Cup. His predecessor Joao Havelange was the same, giving the World Cup to the US and the Far East - and it's no coincidence, either, as Havelange was Blatter's mentor.
I'm sure massive corruption was already endemic before Blatter, he just enhanced things along with the increased popularity and money for the game. I still firmly believe that they shot themselves in the foot with Qatar. Total belief & arrogance in their own untouchability. South Africa, Russia, etc, all defensible and justifiable by the "logic" of spreading the game's appeal. Qatar, however, just defies all logic.
The England/Ireland game is dire, if anyone was wondering. England in particular have very little about them in midfield. Milner and Henderson are too similar to play together, Lallana offers little out of his position on the wing and Rooney has lacked any quality of touch so far on the few occasions he has got to the ball.
