Transfer Rumours Transfer Rumours thread

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InBiscanWeTrust said:
I like Lucas and certainly provided better balance to our team in that DM role than Gerrard did. Any coincidence our form picked up mid year when he came back in?

saying that, he can be improved upon, only need to look at Matic for Chelsea who does so much work that goes unnoticed and helps control the tempo of a game. He's a perfect mix between Lucas and Gerrard. Good defensively like Lucas but with a bit of drive and good passing like Gerrard.
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Matic is light years ahead of Lucas defensively as are most DM's.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Matic is light years ahead of Lucas defensively as are most DM's.
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Dont agree. I think Lucas is decent but as I say, can be improved on because he doesn't offer as much on the ball as a lot of others in that position. Gone are the days where you can get a DM to win the ball then just pass sidewards to let someone else take over, they are expected to be able to bring the ball forward and make incisive passes as well
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Exactly - however, I'll be happy enough to get a DM who can do the defensive side first and foremost.

Whilst I bash the defence all the time, they have no protection from the midfield.
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Wanyama would be perfect for you lot, but I can't see Rodgers buying a player of that ilk.
 
Tobes said:
I largely agree.

Barry did that job for us brilliantly last season. (this season he's waned, and so have we!)

United's best spell of form this season came when Carrick was playing the holding role so efficiently.

Matic has helped take Chelsea from being very good to Champions.

However the modern DM isn't merely a tough tackling defensive player, they're now the player who 'makes things tick' by reading the game well, covering their backline, intercepting the ball and moving it forwards accurately and efficiently. It's largely an unsung hero's role, but without doubt absolutely key in the modern game, as the full backs pushing on leave sides more defensively exposed, and the DM needs to offer cover.
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If people were more interested in [HASHTAG]#reality[/HASHTAG] they would understand Allen does this role very well for us
 
InBiscanWeTrust said:
Dont agree. I think Lucas is decent but as I say, can be improved on because he doesn't offer as much on the ball as a lot of others in that position. Gone are the days where you can get a DM to win the ball then just pass sidewards to let someone else take over, they are expected to be able to bring the ball forward and make incisive passes as well
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Can't really add anything other than Lucas is poor defensively. Matic is miles ahead. Lucas, by default of being in a DM position will protect the defence to some extent.

But he's not fit to lace the boots of Matic or Mascherano.
 
luvgonzo said:
Completely disagree on Can, I don't think he's suited to DM he's too slow over a short distance it's only when he get the ball out from his feet and can stride forward that he shows his pace. As much as the DM role is suited to someone who can read the game and has good positional sense it also needs that abilty to close a gap quickly and I don't think that suits him.
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Yes but.... matic.

Can has the organisational ability, the brain and the passing ability to dominate our cbs and really benefit us in possession. Matic gets all round the park too.

I feel can could be really good playing that role.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
Yes but.... matic.

Can has the organisational ability, the brain and the passing ability to dominate our cbs and really benefit us in possession. Matic gets all round the park too.

I feel can could be really good playing that role.
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Matic is a good example and you may well be right it all comes down to if Can can read the game like Matic.
 
Tobes said:
I largely agree.

Barry did that job for us brilliantly last season. (this season he's waned, and so have we!)

United's best spell of form this season came when Carrick was playing the holding role so efficiently.

Matic has helped take Chelsea from being very good to Champions.

However the modern DM isn't merely a tough tackling defensive player, they're now the player who 'makes things tick' by reading the game well, covering their backline, intercepting the ball and moving it forwards accurately and efficiently. It's largely an unsung hero's role, but without doubt absolutely key in the modern game, as the full backs pushing on leave sides more defensively exposed, and the DM needs to offer cover.
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Tobes you have hit the nail on head totally.

Destructive players are no good on their own. You need the ability on the ball.

I think to say can should be running about to be at his best misses the point you've made about making the team tick over and the organise and fill in behind are good. This is what alonso did for us big time.

I'd rather an alonso any day over a mascherano.

I think can can be that organiser and man to set the tempo
 
Can could play that role but it would be a waste. We need him in CM alongside Hendo/Allen.

A dedicated DM behind him would boss midfields like we did under Rafa.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
Tobes you have hit the nail on head totally.

Destructive players are no good on their own. You need the ability on the ball.

I think to say can should be running about to be at his best misses the point you've made about making the team tick over and the organise and fill in behind are good. This is what alonso did for us big time.

I'd rather an alonso any day over a mascherano.

I think can can be that organiser and man to set the tempo
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Alonso cannot do all the donkey work. That's why he and Mascherano worked so well because they complimented one another - we need a Mascherano more than an Alonso.

You only have to look at Bayern this season with Alonso playing at the base - he is overrun.
 
astroturfnaut said:
If people were more interested in [HASHTAG]#reality[/HASHTAG] they would understand Allen does this role very well for us
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So astro, where do you think the problem lies? You don't think its Rodgers who you think is a fantastic manager (I think he's overrated, has no strategy, hasn't really developed a philosophy and has been buying poorly). You don't think its your keeper (i agree he's not the main problem). You don't think it's your defenders (i think you only have 1 decent defender in sahko). You think Allen is a solid dm (he's average and no where near top 4) and you think you have the next best things since sliced bread in Ibe, Coutinho (not sterling anymore), henderson, Can and Sturridge.

The more you convince everyone they are wrong when they criticise anything Liverpool, the more you sound like UIR who likes to paper over anything united
 
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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Alonso cannot do all the donkey work. That's why he and Mascherano worked so well because they complimented one another - we need a Mascherano more than an Alonso.

You only have to look at Bayern this season with Alonso playing at the base - he is overrun.
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Ahem won cl without mascherano. ... but with hamann. That was a distinctive double screen which is not what is being said here

What's being said here is 1 behind and 2 box to box and that's different.

I would argue for flexibility here. You want to pivot depending on the opposition and the state of the game.

People forget can played just this role at his previous club!
 
BobbyD said:
So astro, where do you think the problem lies? You don't think its Rodgers who you think is a fantastic manager (I think he's overrated, has no strategy, hasn't really developed a philosophy and has been buying poorly). You don't think its your keeper (i agree he's not the main problem). You don't think it's your defenders (i think you only have 1 decent defender in sahko). You think Allen is a solid dm (he's average and no where near top 4) and you think you have the next best things since sliced bread in Ibe, Coutinho (not sterling anymore), henderson, Can and Sturridge.

The more you convince everyone they are wrong when they criticise anything Liverpool, the more you sound like UIR who likes to paper over anything united
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Never said half those things but feel free to [HASHTAG]#meltdown[/HASHTAG] anyway
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
Ahem won cl without mascherano. ... but with hamann. That was a distinctive double screen which is not what is being said here

What's being said here is 1 behind and 2 box to box and that's different.

I would argue for flexibility here. You want to pivot depending on the opposition and the state of the game.

People forget can played just this role at his previous club!
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Can can play the role but I just feel it would be shackling him, when I rather he was more of a driving force as a CM, because we know, Allen and Henderson cannot provide this.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Can't really add anything other than Lucas is poor defensively. Matic is miles ahead. Lucas, by default of being in a DM position will protect the defence to some extent.

But he's not fit to lace the boots of Matic or Mascherano.
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I am sorry but Lucas' problem is not one of ability but one of fitness. It is such a travesty he did his ACL and ever since he has not been able to stay fit consistently. Case in point this season is we had picked some form with Lucas and then he was dropped in the away game at OT where united rinsed us easily. Then Lucas came back we went on a 13 game unbeaten run only for Lucas to miss the game at Anfield vs United via injury and again we lost.

He also requires 2 games to regain fitness and by then if the next game is tough he is a liability. Again I repeat his biggest issue is fitness not ability.
 
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