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Jimmy Squarefoot said:
We played half a season using 4-2-3-1 - we could have Sturridge as the striker but we still wouldn't have scored because the system and style did not work.

When Sturridge did return as a lone striker, he struggled massively hence why I said simply having strikers starting doesn't equal goals.
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Oh, a half fit Studge for half a dozen games didn't work so you must be right then <doh>
 
Gerrez said:
Oh, a half fit Studge for half a dozen games didn't work so you must be right then <doh>
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Your logic was if we had a striker, we'd have scored more goals. We had Sturridge (who was fit) but looked awful). I'd argue our best performances came when Mario and Sterling were up top.
 
Tobes said:
Sorry, but it's not a complicated concept, but you appear to have totally missed it.

The points are merely the output.

The goals scored and conceded are the input that create that output.

Look back through every season and come back with the stats of the numbers of winners who also had the best GD. As over a season those who score the most and concede the fewest win. It's that ****ing simple.
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08/09 season

United 1st gd 44
Liverpool 2nd gd 50
Chelsea 3rd gd 44

02/03 season

United 1st 40
Arsenal 2nd 43
Newcastle 3rd 15
Chelsea 4th 30

Only two i could find going back to 2000. The 02/03 one is interesting when you look at Newcastle`s gd against Chelsea`s.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Your logic was if we had a striker, we'd have scored more goals. We had Sturridge (who was fit) but looked awful). I'd argue our best performances came when Mario and Sterling were up top.
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So you think the Studge we saw was the type of striker I meant? <laugh>
 
If we want to talk process them goals are not the input they are not what a team outs in they are the outcome of the process

You put in organisation, systems of play, talent, creativity, workrate etc and what comes out is goals and clean sheets
 
Gerrez said:
So you think the Studge we saw was the type of striker I meant? <laugh>
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To be honest, I haven't got a clue what you're on about now.

But what I do think is that is simply buying a striker does not equate to more goals. Just as playing more than one striker doesn't equal more goals, or sticking more defenders equals more clean sheets. Sure, extra attacker may lead to a few more goals but it masks the underlying problem which (I know we disagree on) is that we're not creating that many chances in the first place because our creative players are dropping too deep to help the defence. Rodgers is overcompensating because he knows he's a sh*T defensive coach.

The same applies to the defence - we played 3 at the back which got us a few more clean sheets, but when we lose our best defender, it goes to sh*t again and we continue to concede.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
To be honest, I haven't got a clue what you're on about now.
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It's not rocket science Jimmy. Do you think a CL hopeful club should be happy that their leading scorer has seven goals? Obviously it isn't and we have clearly lacked a goalscorer.

You can't claim we've had Studge because we simply haven't. He never looked at the races in his few brief appearances this year, clearly he wasn't match fit.

Lastly, you are the only one in this conversation to say we play 4231; aka a lone striker. Not surprising really since you'd spunk your pants seventeen times a game if Mourinho was our coach parking attendant <laugh>
 
Gerrez said:
It's not rocket science Jimmy. Do you think a CL hopeful club should be happy that their leading scorer has seven goals? Obviously it isn't and we have clearly lacked a goalscorer.

You can't claim we've had Studge because we simply haven't. He never looked at the races in his few brief appearances this year, clearly he wasn't match fit.

Lastly, you are the only one in this conversation to say we play 4231; aka a lone striker. Not surprising really since you'd spunk your pants seventeen times a game if Mourinho was our coach parking attendant <laugh>
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When Rodgers first came, this was the system he implemented - then tweaked it to 4-3-3. Then he stumbled on the diamond last season, but then went back to 4-2-3-1 for majority of this season. It's why he wanted players like Bony, Lambert and now Benteke - he wants a physical presence who can play as the lone striker.

And you say Sturridge didn't look at the races - are you blaming his poor performances on fitness and not on the fact that tactics/style of play simply did not suit him? I think the fitness is an easy excuse to hide behind because you (along with others) have criticised Mario for looking rubbish when played in exact the same way. Sturridge looked instantly better when he had a partner next to him i.e. Mario.
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
When Rodgers first came, this was the system he implemented - then tweaked it to 4-3-3. Then he stumbled on the diamond last season, but then went back to 4-2-3-1 for majority of this season. It's why he wanted players like Bony, Lambert and now Benteke - he wants a physical presence who can play as the lone striker.

And you say Sturridge didn't look at the races - are you blaming his poor performances on fitness and not on the fact that tactics/style of play simply did not suit him? I think the fitness is an easy excuse to hide behind because you (along with others) have criticised Mario for looking rubbish when played in exact the same way. Sturridge looked instantly better when he had a partner next to him i.e. Mario.
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Maybe he was just tired then <doh>
 
Gerrez said:
Spurs technically five behind with gd. Easy :bandit:
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All we need do is play sinclair ojo and ibe for next 3 games.

Really LFc should just be trying to get mr coutinho as high up the pitch as possible and as many intelligent runners ahead of him as possible.

though... those kids haven't a goo either.
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
All we need do is play sinclair ojo and ibe for next 3 games.

Really LFc should just be trying to get mr coutinho as high up the pitch as possible and as many intelligent runners ahead of him as possible.

though... those kids haven't a goo either.
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We could just go on holiday now and get fifth, Saints and Spurs are already on the beach :)
 
Gerrez said:
We could just go on holiday now and get fifth, Saints and Spurs are already on the beach :)
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They are in the airport on thier way back form the beach they've been on it soooo long.

Wrong attitude and it holds the smaller clubs back. the english press are going to talk england out of thier 4th CL spot. sunday the sunday supplement gobshites were on about the fair play spot and calling it a disaster for everton or west ham.

Wrong attitude.

it should be used to develop your squad and club... i'd love to see what spurs or southampton think hey will do on their 5 year plans for CL status when they do get it cos they will be 4th seeds and sent right back into europa.

finally I fully expect within next 5 years that england will have a rude wake up call as the 4th CL spot gets taken off us. I don't see any progression in arsneal or city at all and utd might be ok next year as they will have seeding to progress and a manager willing to park a bus..

but no english side looks capable of getting out of QF and round of 16 looks dodgy too....
 
moreinjuredthanowen said:
They are in the airport on thier way back form the beach they've been on it soooo long.

Wrong attitude and it holds the smaller clubs back. the english press are going to talk england out of thier 4th CL spot. sunday the sunday supplement gobshites were on about the fair play spot and calling it a disaster for everton or west ham.

Wrong attitude.

it should be used to develop your squad and club... i'd love to see what spurs or southampton think hey will do on their 5 year plans for CL status when they do get it cos they will be 4th seeds and sent right back into europa.

finally I fully expect within next 5 years that england will have a rude wake up call as the 4th CL spot gets taken off us. I don't see any progression in arsneal or city at all and utd might be ok next year as they will have seeding to progress and a manager willing to park a bus..

but no english side looks capable of getting out of QF and round of 16 looks dodgy too....
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I'm only taking the piss anyway, I want to see us get all six points regardless. I don't want to see the likes of Johnson, Toure and Balotelli playing either, Gerrard to a lesser extent as I expect him to be given a final hurray at Anfield this Saturday and we're not going to not play him in that final game of the season either. Sentiment for a club legend isn't so bad once the season is over.
 
Gerrez said:
I'm only taking the piss anyway, I want to see us get all six points regardless. I don't want to see the likes of Johnson, Toure and Balotelli playing either, Gerrard to a lesser extent as I expect him to be given a final hurray at Anfield this Saturday and we're not going to not play him in that final game of the season either. Sentiment for a club legend isn't so bad once the season is over.
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I'd agree..

I fail to understand why jonhson would play rather than spend the next two games bashing position into moreno's bonce.

I could understand him being moved to RB of course.

I could understand lambert being dropped and coutinho play lw and stelring no 9 even with lallana up there if can could play DM and we just let gerrard roam about.

But to see johnson, lambert, et al makes no sense now. We have to try at least use the games to get a tone set for future.
 
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