The Bayern Semi Thread.

[King Shergar]

I don't know about Barca/Real being the best two teams in it. You seem to be seriously underestimating Bayern.

I'm firmly in the Madrid camp I've liked them since I was a kid, my favourite all time players played for them (Zidane, Ronaldo - the Ronaldo not Cristiano although he ain't bad either! And Michael Owen) and I have very good friends who live in Madrid so been a few times so will always have a soft spot for Real.

But as hard as it might be for me to admit the best two teams left in are Barca/Munich and if Munich get it together in their two legs then for me it'll be a Real/Bayern final.

Personally I'd prefer to see El Classico in final because if Bayern get there they win it and I'd like Real to lift it again

Cristiano isn't just not bad either, he is miles better than the Brazilian Ronaldo.

In Cristiano Ronaldo's worst goal scoring season at Real, he scored more goals than the Brazilian Ronaldo did in his best season.

That pretty much settles the debate of which Ronaldo was the better player

 

[cityhull]

I love both Ronaldo's, the Brazilian Ronaldo's performance at OT when he got a hat-trick was unreal.
Cristiano has worked so hard to get were he is today, the dedication is what every young footballer should aspire to. He doesn't have as much natural talent as a lot of top players but he has worked on what he has and is now rightfully up there with the much more giftedley talented Messi

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

Cristiano isn't just not bad either, he is miles better than the Brazilian Ronaldo.

In Cristiano Ronaldo's worst goal scoring season at Real, he scored more goals than the Brazilian Ronaldo did in his best season.

That pretty much settles the debate of which Ronaldo was the better player

I never said he wasn't better I just said Ronaldo was one of my favourites that doesn't mean I think he was a better player. I'm a massive fan of Cristiano and would take him over Messi but saying someone is your favourite player isn't the same as saying he's the best player.

Zidane is my favourite player of all time but in my opinion Maradona is the greatest player of all time.

 

[King Shergar]

I never said he wasn't better I just said Ronaldo was one of my favourites that doesn't mean I think he was a better player. I'm a massive fan of Cristiano and would take him over Messi but saying someone is your favourite player isn't the same as saying he's the best player.

Zidane is my favourite player of all time but in my opinion Maradona is the greatest player of all time.

No you didn't say it, it just came across to me that you believed that

 

[bayernkenny]

'Greatest' player of all time is subjective. My favourites are:

1. Paul Breitner
2. Diego Armando Maradona
3.Franz Beckenbauer
4. Dave Mackay
5. Alfredo di Stefano

 

[King Shergar]

I love both Ronaldo's, the Brazilian Ronaldo's performance at OT when he got a hat-trick was unreal.
Cristiano has worked so hard to get were he is today, the dedication is what every young footballer should aspire to. He doesn't have as much natural talent as a lot of top players but he has worked on what he has and is now rightfully up there with the much more giftedley talented Messi

Ronaldo is a more complete player than Messi. He has more tools he can hurt opponents with. Messi is exceptional, but he's abit of a 1 trick pony

 

[Cyclonic]

Cat among the pigeons time. I've been reading of a debate on several sites about who is/was the best of all time. In an age, the here and now, the athletes of today get an unfair advantage. The amount of media hype we're subjected tends to warp perceptions, and this leads to those of the past getting the short end of the stick. Was either of the Ronaldo lads or Maradona better than someone like Pele?

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

No you didn't say it, it just came across to me that you believed that

Just to clear up any confusion Cristiano Ronaldo is, in my opinion better than Ronaldo, the 'he ain't bad either' was clearly tongue in cheek. I get sick of arguing Cristiano's case at work it's all Messi this Messi that

 

[SwanHills]

Since January he is on day release from Landsberg prison; temporary home of infamous Austrian!!!!!!

Yep, Kenny, I know, was a low-blow comment from me. Bayern München owe just about everything to him. Their financial strength, the very well-run club, their independence from wealthy Arabs and Russians, etc., is all down to Uli Hoeness. He is an administrative genius. It was tragic that he fell foul to an unstoppable urge for currency gambling with money that was, in fact, given to him and chucked into a Swiss bank account. Don't think he actually saw any of it, just mucked around with it something fierce. Think I've got the basics right there.

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

Cat among the pigeons time. I've been reading of a debate on several sites about who is/was the best of all time. In an age, the here and now, the athletes of today get an unfair advantage. The amount of media hype we're subjected tends to warp perceptions, and this leads to those of the past getting the short end of the stick. Was either of the Ronaldo lads or Maradona better than someone like Pele?

The short answer is yes. But depends what you look for. Pele was a goal machine who spent the majority of his career at one club in an average league. His international career was superb but just look at the players he played with, I could have won a World Cup with them!

Maradona was a complete player and took an average Napoli side and won league titles and turned them into a European force. Plus he pretty much single handedly (no pun intended) won a World Cup on his own

 

[King Shergar]

Maradonna was twice the player Pele was. Pele spent most of his days banging in goals against part time footballers.

Pele never really carried Brazil either, they'd of still been a dominant World Cup winning side with or without him. Where as Maradonna single handedly carried the Argies.

Messi probably has more talent than Maradonna did, but Messi chokes in big games, the guy was literally non existent in the world cup knockout stages. Where as Maradona thrived on the pressure of being the talisman for his country and delivered on the pitch.

I have some Argentinian friends and they would laugh at you if you tried to tell them Messi was better, as in the big games that matter he has well and truly proved he can't handle the pressure

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

'Greatest' player of all time is subjective. My favourites are:

1. Paul Breitner
2. Diego Armando Maradona
3.Franz Beckenbauer
4. Dave Mackay
5. Alfredo di Stefano

I love debating this sort of thing it's one of those where no ones top five will be the same and depends what you're looking for because different things about a player appeal to different people. For example I've never even heard of your number 1 choice!

I'd also have both Cristiano and Messi in any all time top 5 which is not usually done because they're still playing but I don't see why we should have to wait 10/20/30 years after they retire to truly appreciate their greatness

 

[Deleted 1]

I still think Zidane doesn't get mentioned among the greatest as often as he possibly should be. The man could control a game single handedly and really had it all. Phenomenal player.

 

[rainermariarilke]

So many ifs and buts here, and in the end it's always going to be subjective. One thing worth bearing in mind is that, until about the 1960s, if you didn't attend games in person you just didn't see any football (my generation wasted thousands of pounds sitting through Rock Hudson/Doris Day romcoms just to catch a 30--second grainy/grey newsreel clip of England v. Scotland). Now, everyone's an expert.

This is just a view, and note that I've given a bonus-weighting to players who spent at least some of their golden years in 'ordinary' sides. Best-ever, in order:

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. George Best
4. Jimmy Greaves *
5. John Charles

(* Hang in there, Jim. I'm in the minority who believe that if the stolid and unimaginative Ramsey had started you in 1966, England would have won about 3-0 or 4-1 and there would have been no need for extra time).

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

I still think Zidane doesn't get mentioned among the greatest as often as he possibly should be. The man could control a game single handedly and really had it all. Phenomenal player.

Completely agree mate love this bloke was an amazing footballer and his ability on the ball was phenomenal. My pride and joy is a signed and framed pic of Zidane doing his trademark volley that the wife bought me years ago for a birthday present

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

So many ifs and buts here, and in the end it's always going to be subjective. One thing worth bearing in mind is that, until about the 1960s, if you didn't attend games in person you just didn't see any football (my generation wasted thousands of pounds sitting through Rock Hudson/Doris Day romcoms just to catch a 30--second grainy/grey newsreel clip of England v. Scotland). Now, everyone's an expert.

This is just a view, and note that I've given a bonus-weighting to players who spent at least some of their golden years in 'ordinary' sides. Best-ever, in order:

1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. George Best
4. Jimmy Greaves *
5. John Charles

(* Hang in there, Jim. I'm in the minority who believe that if the stolid and unimaginative Ramsey had started you in 1966, England would have won about 3-0 or 4-1 and there would have been no need for extra time).

Glad to see George Best on your list and I think if he'd had a longer career he'd be debated regularly up there at the top

 

[SwanHills]

Cat among the pigeons time. I've been reading of a debate on several sites about who is/was the best of all time. In an age, the here and now, the athletes of today get an unfair advantage. The amount of media hype we're subjected tends to warp perceptions, and this leads to those of the past getting the short end of the stick. Was either of the Ronaldo lads or Maradona better than someone like Pele?

Interesting, Cyc. You know, when we talk about great, or greatest football players of all time, we are apt to forget one Manuel Francisco dos Santos, better known as Garrincha (Little Bird). There are many who think he was even greater than Pele:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrincha

http://www.givemesport.com/449197-was-garrincha-better-than-pele

I have never been sure as to who I would call the greatest player of all time, there are at least half-a-dozen or so to choose from. Maradona, no, he was more of a handball player of some repute. Gun to my head? Probably Der Kaiser, Franz Beckenbauer, but it's a tough question.

 

[King Shergar]

Cristiano Ronaldo
Maradona
Messi
Best
Zidane

 

[Cyclonic]

Testimonies thanks to Wiki.

Johan Cruyff: "Pelé was the only footballer who surpassed the boundaries of logic."
Carlos Torres: "His great secret was improvisation. Those things he did were in one moment. He had an extraordinary perception of the game."
Tostao: "Pelé was the greatest – he was simply flawless."
Just Fontaine: "When I saw Pelé play, it made me feel I should hang up my boots."
Ferenc Puskas: "The greatest player in history was Di Stefano. I refuse to classify Pele as a player. He was above that."

And the list goes on and on.

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

Interesting, Cyc. You know, when we talk about great, or greatest football players of all time, we are apt to forget one Manuel Francisco dos Santos, better known as Garrincha (Little Bird). There are many who think he was even greater than Pele:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrincha

http://www.givemesport.com/449197-was-garrincha-better-than-pele

I have never been sure as to who I would call the greatest player of all time, there are at least half-a-dozen or so to choose from. Maradona, no, he was more of a handball player of some repute. Gun to my head? Probably Der Kaiser, Franz Beckenbauer, but it's a tough question.

Garrincha what a player and you're right does get forgotten about I like that he used to play in World Cup for Brazil then go back and play street footy with his mates in the slums where he grew up. Just loved playing football no matter what level. And was probably only one of a few who could out drink George Best!!