I think it's a case that we're comparing Flanno to incredibly low markers: - Flanno looks good because he is better than what he was - in reality, he was sh*t before but is now average. - We're comparing him to Johnson and Enrique, and whilst he is better, it's not by much and we're comparing him to dross. It's a classic case of a player being so sh*t, then when he finally doesn't f*ck up, he's lauded. The same happened with Carroll and now Lovren. Him being a good defender is a myth - him tackling hard masks his overall ability. Similar to how Gerrard mainly assisted from set pieces and scored from penalties, and people thought he was world class last season.
So how would you compare him to shaw, Raffael, blind, Valencia, Clichy, Monreal, Gibbs, Ben Davies, Danny rose, Kyle walker.... those se are the full backs of our main rivals....
They're all sh*t as well. The PL is the worst league defensively and should not be used a marker. Chelsea's fullbacks are the benchmark - Azpi, Flipe Luis, Ivanovic are top class. That's the level we should be aspiring to. And the worst thing is, we have a young Spanish lad in Manquillo who know hows to defend. He's been brought up and coached by Simeone who is a master of building from the back. Manquillo has the pace and decent technique which leads me to believe he can go on and improve his offensive play. We shouldn't forget that Ashley Cole was awful going forward until 25.
Chelsea spent £15m on a la Liga winning full back that has played about 20 minutes if football. Yes if if we had unlimited money and were regular title challenges then sure we should be going for the best but atm I don't think lahm, alba, alaba, danilo would fancy coming to us.
That's why we need to buy the next Lahm's etc. There is plenty of quality out there - Moreno is a good defender, watch him last season. He has struggled this season because he's playing in an extremely poor team defensively. Ricardo Rodriguez at Wolfsburg is one of the best left backs in the world. Oliver Sorg, Sakai are other talented full backs in the Bundesliga. No one is saying we have to buy world class players - but we should certainly be aspiring to reach a world class level.
I guess because its not not flanninho playing in Germany he can't reach a high level despite being one of the best full backs in the league last year and getting into the england team ahead of players like Clyne who are now being courted by United and City for £15m ipwatds...
No, he can't get to a high level because: He is a limited player Slow Can't jump Poor positionally Average passing Can't attack Average tackler He was the most dribbled past full back in the league last season A lot of the attacks were down his side. This isn't me hating Flanno because he's a local lad. It's because he's a poor player and not of the level we require.
He can get to a higher level because: hes young and and will only get better wih experience brilliant tackler Solid passer versatile and can play on either side of the back 4 can attack by making good passes rather than bombing down the wing and just throwing in an aimless cross to no one like moreno oh and can score worldie half volleys
As I said above, nothing but a world XI will do Tell you something, I'd love to be able to look at Jimmy's opinions of the pre-2014 Jamie Carragher. It would be priceless now. If Flanno can get over his injuries (touch wood), this conversation will be just as priceless in ten years time.
All that matters is that Rodgers rates him. Just seen the great man on Sky Sports News describe Flannagan as a big miss this season as he was the best full back in the league in the second half of last season. His agent will have taken note of that comment!
you tell em.. they won't be happy until the team is full of similar dross. When a local lad is a star and comes through our youths believe me we will all know it...
pre 2014 or pre 2004 you mean.... I always felt carragher was steve harkness mark ii. He in many ways reminded me of me. He was a better player than he allowed himself to be in many ways. I think he was under rated going forward actually cos he lumped it a lot but could make a pass or a cross etc. I think personally he held himself back and was accused of being a player who got nose bleeds when crossing the half way line IMO. He'd not the pace to stick at full back and was not played CB for prob 2 years by houllier as he hadn't the height to be the player houllier wanted so was used as utility player. Carragher at his best played sweeper behind hyppia or then agger. As in reading the game and making tackles and keeping the line organised.
Who as claimed Flanno to be a star...? He is a solid competent player that deserves more respect that some haters (the #average posters) are showing.
I obviously meant pre-2004 Carragher knew is own limitations and was able to use what he did have to its maximum. Add his heart, desire and passion into the equation and it meant he was willing to put his own well being on the line for the good of the club. That is Flanno! He's not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination but he is a solid and competent player that also has the same heart, desire and passion that Carragher had. IMO, flanno's impact comes down to your expectation of the FBs. If you're playing with attacking FBs and you want them to be the width and creativity of the team then Flanno probably isn't your man (although he did very well in that role last season). If you want a solid back four then he is IMO.
don't talk sense to them... Moreno is a ****e defender though.. hes let too many players get free and score off him when the basics of defending would stop goals. The policy in 2011 was buy the next x or y... we've ended up buying the off casts like badontelly as we've failed to take the risks cos the software doesn't say their stats are good enough... money ball might work in major league baseball cos kids have 4 years of college ball for stats but in professional football by the time players have stats they are very expensive.
Ha alright lads - I think we need to agree to disagree MITO - not arguing about Moreno this season. He has been poor but he's still a raw talent. He was far better last season when he was playing in a more solid structure, and under a better manager. He has a lot of potential.
