Suspended horses?

[stick]

The Stewards held an enquiry into the running and riding of LORD USHER (IRE), ridden by Jan Faltejsek and trained by George Charlton, which appeared to be ridden tenderly throughout the race until staying on after the final hurdle to finish sixth, beaten 15¼ lengths. They interviewed the rider and the trainer. They also received a report from the Veterinary Officer. The rider stated his instructions were to jump off behind the leaders and try and get the best result. He added that LORD USHER (IRE) was, in his opinion, going as fast as he could throughout the race and he was unable to ask for any more effort until the gelding got his second wind, having been outpaced. The trainer confirmed these instructions and stated that he was happy with the ride given to LORD USHER (IRE). He further stated that in his opinion the gelding was outpaced throughout the race and he will benefit from running over a longer distance. Having heard their evidence and viewed recordings of the race the Stewards found the rider in breach of Rule (B)59.2 and the trainer in breach of Rule (C)45.4, in that they were guilty of schooling/conditioning the horse on the racecourse. They suspended the rider for 14 days as follows: Saturday 4, Sunday 5, Monday 6, Thursday 9, Friday 10, Saturday 11, Sunday 12, Monday 13, Tuesday 14, Wednesday 15, Thursday 16, Friday 17, Saturday 18 and Sunday 19 April, 2015. They fined the trainer £3000 and suspended the horse from running in any race for 40 days from Tuesday 24 March 2015 to Saturday 2 May 2015, inclusive.

I just wondered, and I don't expect any of you to know, what the record of suspended horses is next time they run.
I was looking at the BHA site to see if there was any explanation for the poor showing from GODSMEJUDGE at Bangor this weekend. Newland isn't allowed to school National runners in hurdles but it looks to me that King is!

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

I don't know the answer to your question but for me the punishment is no where near what it should be. The fines and bans should be much higher and much longer. It's a worse offence in my opinion than doping a horse and it is the main thing I hate about horse racing

 

[King Shergar]

There is always something suspicious going on at most trainers yards Stick, I'm not sure what was going on with Godsmejudge at the weekend, seems a little to close to the National to be schooling him over hurdles though.

Another one that had a very suspicious run on Saturday was Morello Royale of Colin Tizards in the mares final. I noticed before the race that she was trading at 26.00 on Betfair, more than double her 11/1 quote with the normal bookies. She is then beaten with about 6 furlongs left to run, and is pulled up shortly after.

I'd be getting him in a room and asking him why his horse is trading at double the SP on betfair and then runs a stinker

 

[Ron]

"Schooling" a horse on a racecourse has never harmed a horse. Doping a horse can make a horse do something that it is not physically capable of without seriously risking its health and/or injury. At worst it could be fatal.

 

[King Shergar]

Trainers shouldn't dope horses because it's potentially dangerous to their health. Yet it's perfectly fine to have 40 of them jumping huge fences for 4 miles plus, in a race that most of the field normally falls. For nothing more than to entertain the general public every year

 

[OddDog]

This from Alan King's website on Friday:

"PLENTY of trainers fine-tune their Grand National horses with a run or two over hurdles, and this is the route Alan is taking with Godsmejudge at Bangor tomorrow.

Alan, who is aiming Godsmejudge at the Crabbie's Grand National at Aintree on April 11, said:"He needs another gallop, and I'd rather run him here than Cheltenham or Uttoxeter. He'd have had a hard race at the Festival wherever he'd finished, and I could not have run him in the Midlands National on that testing ground. This will hopefully put him spot on for the big one."

and on Sunday ......................

"Alan confessed that he was "disappointed" with Godsmejudge's run over hurdles at Bangor. "We'll have to run a few tests, but that was not him," was the trainer's assessment about our Grand National hope, who will have to bounce back to become a contender for Aintree."

I don't think there's any skullduggery there.

 

[Sir Barney Chuckles]

Trainers shouldn't dope horses because it's potentially dangerous to their health. Yet it's perfectly fine to have 40 of them jumping huge fences for 4 miles plus, in a race that most of the field normally falls. For nothing more than to entertain the general public every year

And at least a dozen run every year, in the GN, who have absolutely no chance whatsoever of lasting home. To use that terrible Chav expression, ‘They wouldn’t stay the trip even in the back of Charlie Slater’s taxi’. Another hugely dangerous thing to ask a horse to do.

Every year owners overrule their trainers and insist on, as I say, at least a dozen horses running to give them a day out with their pals when the horse blatantly won’t stay the GN distance. The most obvious ones from last term were Mr Henderson’s Hunt Ball and Alan King’s Walkon. Both trainers were put in their place by the owners and told ‘just run them’ when even the stable cat knew they both barely stayed 20 furlongs let alone almost 2 miles further!

 

[Sir Barney Chuckles]

I was looking at the BHA site to see if there was any explanation for the poor showing from GODSMEJUDGE at Bangor this weekend. Newland isn't allowed to school National runners in hurdles but it looks to me that King is!

Following Godsmejudge’s close 2nd in last terms Scottish National there was much confidence about him giving the county our first GN winner since 1937, yes, 1937. However, I have been totally puzzled by the way he has been campaigned since the end of January. 3 races with form figures of –P50.

I’m sure if asked Mr Nicholls, Mr Henderson, Daddy Martin, especially Daddy Martin, and even Alan King himself they would say that they could get a horse 100% fit at home for a specified single target given how advanced their gallops are these days allied to their own ability to condition and train a racehorse. Even in extreme cases this could be done with the addition of a racecourse gallop or two plus maybe a ‘prep’ in a race somewhere so why he has decided to give the animal 3 race ‘preps’ is quite honestly beyond me! Plus what can possibly be achieved by the horse trailing home 69 lengths behind the winner on Saturday I’ve no idea. I don't think you can call it anything but 'schooling in public' as the horse wasn't there to win simply, in the trainer's mind, to bring him forward for the real target in 3 weeks time.

Godsmejudge is still available at 20/1 for the GN but to my eye does seem to have a lot of questions to answer at the moment.

 

[King Shergar]

And at least a dozen run every year, in the GN, who have absolutely no chance whatsoever of lasting home. To use that terrible Chav expression, ‘They wouldn’t stay the trip even in the back of Charlie Slater’s taxi’. Another hugely dangerous thing to ask a horse to do.

Every year owners overrule their trainers and insist on, as I say, at least a dozen horses running to give them a day out with their pals when the horse blatantly won’t stay the GN distance. The most obvious ones from last term were Mr Henderson’s Hunt Ball and Alan King’s Walkon. Both trainers were put in their place by the owners and told ‘just run them’ when even the stable cat knew they both barely stayed 20 furlongs let alone almost 2 miles further!

Long Run was another of Nicky Hendersons that had no chance of making it round last year.

I know he was a Gold Cup winner, but even when he won the GC he made mistake after mistake at his fences, so I'm not sure what possessed them to try him over even tougher fences.

 

[TopClass]

Dare I even mention Son Of Flicka?

 

[OddDog]

Don't forget old boy Crisp who won the (2 mile) Champion Chase at Cheltenham before coming within a whisker of pulling off the most spectacular front-running performance the race has ever seen. Mind you, that was back in the day where they hunted round the first circuit and couldn't go too fast because the fences were huge. Completely different race today.

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

"Schooling" a horse on a racecourse has never harmed a horse. Doping a horse can make a horse do something that it is not physically capable of without seriously risking its health and/or injury. At worst it could be fatal.

From a betting perspective, if a horse is doped then its safe to assume its for performance enhancing and therefore more likely to win punters money, schooling just ****s over the regular punter whom bet his or her hard earned cash on a horse in good faith when there's absolutely no chance of a return and not even a decent run for your money. We bet on horses in the hope of winning money, doping helps us do that whereas schooling just steals our cash. I'm not saying i agree with doping in any way shape or form in any sport because i think its bang out of order, I'm just saying in that my opinion its not as bad as schooling in public and the punishments should more harsh for the latter offence.

 

[King Shergar]

Don't forget old boy Crisp who won the (2 mile) Champion Chase at Cheltenham before coming within a whisker of pulling off the most spectacular front-running performance the race has ever seen. Mind you, that was back in the day where they hunted round the first circuit and couldn't go too fast because the fences were huge. Completely different race today.

I remember reading that a good 2 mile chaser used to be the ideal horse for the GN back in the day. Jumping was what it was all about in those days though.

I don't think well ever see a horse dominate like Red Rum did again, as it's impossible to keep defying the handicapper the way the race is now

 

[King Shergar]

From a betting perspective, if a horse is doped then its safe to assume its for performance enhancing and therefore more likely to win punters money, schooling just ****s over the regular punter whom bet his or her hard earned cash on a horse in good faith when there's absolutely no chance of a return and not even a decent run for your money. We bet on horses in the hope of winning money, doping helps us do that whereas schooling just steals our cash. I'm not saying i agree with doping in any way shape or form in any sport because i think its bang out of order, I'm just saying in that my opinion its not as bad as schooling in public and the punishments should more harsh for the latter offence.

You wouldn't be saying that if your horse was beaten a neck by a doped up horse

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

You wouldn't be saying that if your horse was beaten a neck by a doped up horse

If I was on EW I might ha ha! I was just speaking in general terms I don't condone doping but it at least gives punters a chance unlike schooling

 

[rudebwoy]

Some people are allowed to get away with more than others it seems-in racing as well!
Surely no experienced race goer believes all horses are trying to win every race -the handicap sys tem ensures loads of 'schooling ' --surely that's part of racing -spotting when the yard are trying -sometimes it's obvious, big prizes, jockey bookings -trainer going for his race -other times they have to strike when the yard are in top order -with the internet making

 

[rudebwoy]

It much easier to spot coups, it's all part of the game!

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

Some people are allowed to get away with more than others it seems-in racing as well!
Surely no experienced race goer believes all horses are trying to win every race -the handicap sys tem ensures loads of 'schooling ' --surely that's part of racing -spotting when the yard are trying -sometimes it's obvious, big prizes, jockey bookings -trainer going for his race -other times they have to strike when the yard are in top order -with the internet making

Of course you cant expect every horse to try win the race because not all horses are capable of winning races but the ones that are capable then it's not unreasonable to expect them to do so. And maybe it's a naive view for me to have of racing but if an horse is entered in a race it should give its best everytime. Not everyone who gambles knows the wheeling and dealing that goes on behind closed doors or have inside information so can only watch racing read up on form etc... And form an opinion from that. But when you get **** happening like schooling then that's what makes the general Joe public think the sport is corrupt.

Take the Annie Power fall for example, I don't for a second think it was deliberately done but almost straight away people started saying they'd done it on purpose. The fact that people think it could have been deliberate shows what a low opinion the sport holds in some people's eyes. You'd never get Rooney missing a penalty for England in world cup final* and people saying he'd done it on purpose because it's a bent sport.


*England in a world cup final is a work of fiction and used as an analogy for arguments sake

 

[rudebwoy]

His dad had a big bet on 2-1 to utd?

You have to learn to discriminate between those that have a chance, then again have they got their conditions, and finally is it value -after all that, most often we are wrong!
Lots of horses get sighters -blow outs, or on the flat races at the wrong trip -to get ready -it's a long and costly road to learn, but learn we must -or else you're a mug punter who screams at the screen when the fav is beat by an outsider in the betting -its all a fix!!!

 

[smokethedeadbadger]

His dad had a big bet on 2-1 to utd?

You have to learn to discriminate between those that have a chance, then again have they got their conditions, and finally is it value -after all that, most often we are wrong!
Lots of horses get sighters -blow outs, or on the flat races at the wrong trip -to get ready -it's a long and costly road to learn, but learn we must -or else you're a mug punter who screams at the screen when the fav is beat by an outsider in the betting -its all a fix!!!

I agree with what you're saying, I'm not speaking from experience, I bet how I bet in my own little way (I'm sure we all do) knowing full well the risks attached I just don't like the way the sport is sometimes and it pisses me off. The main reason I like this forum is because I learn a lot about all aspects of the sport from vastly more experienced people than myself. I do follow the tips occasionally but 99% of the time I do my own thing.

With regards to doping mentioned in earlier lists being bad for horses welfare then as a flat racing fan I'd say putting obstacles in the way of any horse is bad for its welfare!