Nick Cruwys
- Thread starter yorkshirehornet
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Seems as if we acted in unison Kev.EDIT: See OFH post
I am just very pleased to see some light and the end of a very dark tunnel.
Yes definitely positive news... let's hope his progress continues, and he'll be awake to watch us gain promotion!
I have not made comment here before. Of course I wish Nick well, who in their right mind would not.
My thoughts are of the people who did this. How can any legal settlement be made? The people who beat Nick Cruwys have no respect for anything, possibly they even do not understand what they have managed to do. How can British society have been broken so that boys can be minded that beating someone to near death is acceptable behaviour? Your legal system was one of penalties to act as deterants not any more. I worry to return.
I know here I am with friends but away from Watford I am scared for England.
My thoughts are of the people who did this. How can any legal settlement be made? The people who beat Nick Cruwys have no respect for anything, possibly they even do not understand what they have managed to do. How can British society have been broken so that boys can be minded that beating someone to near death is acceptable behaviour? Your legal system was one of penalties to act as deterants not any more. I worry to return.
I know here I am with friends but away from Watford I am scared for England.
Of course what these people did to Nic was awful, incomprehensible, but, with the risk of being hated by people on here for ever more, Troy Deeney did something equally reprehensible and he has been rehabilitated wonderfully. I realise that I do not have the full details of the injuries to Nic or Troy's victim, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is quite a lot of chance involved in the extent of one's injuries when kicked whilst being on the ground.
Street violence in not acceptable but the perpetrators can be rescued from a life of violence with the right help.
Street violence in not acceptable but the perpetrators can be rescued from a life of violence with the right help.
NZ, I think there are some significant differences between what Troy did and what these thugs did, the main one being that the attack on Moo was clearly premeditated. Whereas the incidient involving Troy (as far as I am aware) was a situation that occurred after a late night and fuelled by booze.
Of course you are right about Troys rehabilitation, both as a footballer and as a person, and to that extent he should be held up as an example of how the justice system can / should work. However, I fear that with these thugs they are starting from a much, much lower point of the evolutionary ladder.
I tend to agree with that although I hope those involved can somehow be rehabilitated as society would be the better for it. One thing I would add, for balance, is that whilst these people, if convicted, deserve condemnation, that lad Olly, the Wolves fan who was so quick to organise a fund to support Nic and his family, is only a kid himself. So thankfully the future is not all doom and gloom.
I've read everyone's comments with interest, and hope that there is the best outcome possible for Nic. One thing bothers me about all the people saying, what was his group doing in that place, it's not the quickest route to the station, etc. It doesn't matter where he was, it's not his fault it's the fault of the thugs who attacked him. He was not "asking for it" by being there. You could imagine people walking in a completely different direction to meet friends from the area, for example. I have been in crowds of supporters on an official route from a ground to the station and still felt in danger. The problem is those people looking for a fight/ an outlet for aggression.
"Fuelled by booze" should not be offered as an excuse of course. I don't suppose any of us know exactly what was in the minds of these people (not sure I want to!) but at least one was reported as a 13-year-old. What they did was despicable, but can we ever say a 13-year-old is beyond redemption? I don't know the answer but nor do I think ta 13-year-old has the maturity we'd expect of an adult. The trouble with rehabilitation is that it takes a long time, it requires skills and resources, and no-one can be certain it will work. One question which is often raised is whether we have invested enough in the last few decades in making young teenagers feel valued, though even as I type this I remember that when I was growing up there was very little encouragement or support offered to teenagers not coping too well.
Thank you for your reasoned responses. I accept that a major difference is that Troy's offence was not premeditated. There is even some suggestion that he was defending his brother.
The advantage Troy has is that he is in a position to get a lot of positive feedback for doing good. Nevertheless, as AK pointed out, it does suggest an underlying element of violence in British culture. Let's be thankful that guns aren't as available as they are in the US.
As for the thugs, and without getting too sociological, it has more or less been proven that people can be end up doing things to others, through group dynamics, that they would have previously condemned. That is one of the reasons that soldiers can commit atrocities.
But I was writing from the point of view of the victim when I wrote my earlier post. For Nic and Troy's victim I would guess that the severity of the injuries suffered is down to chance. Neither should have experienced what happened to them.
I get so tangled up when I think about these things. There is no excuse for deliberately injuring people. We can find many, many reasons why people commit such crimes. The real problems are how we stop we stop such things happening, and how we respond when they do happen.
I haven't said what I mean very well. My excuse is that it is four in the morning, which is pathetic because if I don't like what I have written I shouldn't post.
The advantage Troy has is that he is in a position to get a lot of positive feedback for doing good. Nevertheless, as AK pointed out, it does suggest an underlying element of violence in British culture. Let's be thankful that guns aren't as available as they are in the US.
As for the thugs, and without getting too sociological, it has more or less been proven that people can be end up doing things to others, through group dynamics, that they would have previously condemned. That is one of the reasons that soldiers can commit atrocities.
But I was writing from the point of view of the victim when I wrote my earlier post. For Nic and Troy's victim I would guess that the severity of the injuries suffered is down to chance. Neither should have experienced what happened to them.
I get so tangled up when I think about these things. There is no excuse for deliberately injuring people. We can find many, many reasons why people commit such crimes. The real problems are how we stop we stop such things happening, and how we respond when they do happen.
I haven't said what I mean very well. My excuse is that it is four in the morning, which is pathetic because if I don't like what I have written I shouldn't post.
Agree
Agree, myself and Mini Bloother could easily of taken this route back to the station.
Agree
Not sure what you mean NZ, its good to have all sides of the debate. Bottom line is, as you have said, there is no excuse for the type of violent assault seen in either of these two incidents.
Got to say I agree with a lot of what NZ has said here and it is difficult to show any understanding for the thugs. But that may be because Nick Cruwys is a fellow hornet and therefore there is a bias against the thugs even more so. However when you look at Troy Deeney and Tony Coton before him there is evidence that thuggery can be changed and that Watford have a good record of success. It is concerning that all these examples (plus Marlon King as well) are based in the Midlands and I wonder if there is a particular issue from middle England.
Despite the publicity it seems some people never learn.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-32006464
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-32006464
Watford fan Nic Cruwys is in a "stable and comfortable" condition and is "on the mend", a hospital official has said.
The 44-year-old is being treated at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham after being attacked by thugs on the outskirts of Wolverhampton city centre on Saturday, March 7.
The father-of-two is still in critical care but a hospital offical has told the Watford Observer Mr Cruwys is "on the mend".
Two more teenagers have been arrested in connection with the attack on Watford FC fan Nic Cruwys.
West Midlands Police has confirmed a 17-year-old boy was arrested in Staffordshire on Thursday and an 18-year-old man was arrested in Wolverhampton on Friday.
The 44-year-old is being treated at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham after being attacked by thugs on the outskirts of Wolverhampton city centre on Saturday, March 7.
The father-of-two is still in critical care but a hospital offical has told the Watford Observer Mr Cruwys is "on the mend".
Two more teenagers have been arrested in connection with the attack on Watford FC fan Nic Cruwys.
West Midlands Police has confirmed a 17-year-old boy was arrested in Staffordshire on Thursday and an 18-year-old man was arrested in Wolverhampton on Friday.
Excellent news - positive steps being made.
http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...table_and_comfortable__say_hospital_official/
http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...table_and_comfortable__say_hospital_official/
