Cheating, time to stamp it out.

[Tobes]

Thing is both challenges were identical. It was never a red card but either both get sent off or both stay in the field. If Ibra joined Oscar in the simulation of beung hurt then I bet he doesn't get sent off. The fact he apologized for the tackle made him look worse because you only do that if the challenge was nasty.

Yeah fair point mate.

The thing is, that in less time than the players melee that followed it, the whole of the World could see that it was never a foul let alone a red card, and yet we all had to watch on as the game was played out by PSG with 10 men, that's never right. OK they won in the end, but 9 times out of 10 that decision would have cost them their place in the competition, which is ludicrous when you consider just how easy it would be to erradicate those sort of refereeing errors / players conning them - with a simple video review.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

If both went it a committed a stupid challenge worthy of a red card each, who gets the freekick? Or would it be a drop ball?

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

Play acting is equally annoying. Maybe players should being sidelined; two minutes off the pitch for every roll you perform! If they'd seriously hurt then they'll be substituted anyway.

Yeah fair point mate.

The thing is, that in less time than the players melee that followed it, the whole of the World could see that it was never a foul let alone a red card, and yet we all had to watch on as the game was played out by PSG with 10 men, that's never right. OK they won in the end, but 9 times out of 10 that decision would have cost them their place in the competition, which is ludicrous when you consider just how easy it would be to erradicate those sort of refereeing errors / players conning them - with a simple video review.

And if it's missed during the match get them and punish them post match.....whether you're a Suarez biting, A Fellaini Elbowing, A Costa stamping, an Oscar feigning injury.....whether the ref sees the incident or not. I don't want the game to slow down with 5 minute reviews but give a ref the option of changing his views at least. This also goes for the refs own decisions. I'd even chalk off goals that were scored unfairly...although with video evidence, this should be eradicated... I'd also ban coaches who's teams constantly break the rules....ultimately, players and managers would soon realise that cheating doesn't prosper....unlike now! Point, name and shame

 

[saintanton]

I've been saying it for years- the whole diving culture pisses me right off. Rather than people using it as a convenient stick to bash their opponents with, I'd rather we accepted that it is endemic throughout the game and all work to get rid of it.
Refs need to keep handing out more yellows for it, and I agree with the idea of retrospective judgement regardless of what the ref sees- if it is obvious (some are difficult to judge even with multiple camera angles)
Officials are always going to make mistakes, but I'd rather they erred on the side of fair play. I'd rather more players were denied genuine fouls, than undeserved ones were given.
Imo, fans, and the pundits, need to get out of this "it's all part of the modern game"nonsense and stop excusing their own players whilst rushing to condemn others- in the long run it's the whole game that suffers.
Watching players getting a slight tap then rolling around clutching their faces or their legs buckling when they feel a gossamer hand on their shoulder is bloody annoying.
It isn't clever, it's pathetic- and it makes our game the laughing stock of the sporting world.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

The problem with using video replays is the old 'where do you stop'. If using it for red card offences so the referee has made the right decision to send a player off, won't teams also argue that the referee as incorrectly not sent a player off? What about when referees start to using it rather than making a decision on the pitch? Howard made made a career out of not making decisions, given the opportunity of using video replays they'll refer to it all the time rather than risk facing a public backlash.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

I've been saying it for years- the whole diving culture pisses me right off. Rather than people using it as a convenient stick to bash their opponents with, I'd rather we accepted that it is endemic throughout the game and all work to get rid of it.
Refs need to keep handing out more yellows for it, and I agree with the idea of retrospective judgement regardless of what the ref sees- if it is obvious (some are difficult to judge even with multiple camera angles)
Officials are always going to make mistakes, but I'd rather they erred on the side of fair play. I'd rather more players were denied genuine fouls, than undeserved ones were given.
Imo, fans, and the pundits, need to get out of this "it's all part of the modern game"nonsense and stop excusing their own players whilst rushing to condemn others- in the long run it's the whole game that suffers.
Watching players getting a slight tap then rolling around clutching their faces or their legs buckling when they feel a gossamer hand on their shoulder is bloody annoying.
It isn't clever, it's pathetic- and it makes our game the laughing stock of the sporting world.

So no more teasing the mancs over Ashley Young? I might close this thread now

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

I've been saying it for years- the whole diving culture pisses me right off. Rather than people using it as a convenient stick to bash their opponents with, I'd rather we accepted that it is endemic throughout the game and all work to get rid of it.
Refs need to keep handing out more yellows for it, and I agree with the idea of retrospective judgement regardless of what the ref sees- if it is obvious (some are difficult to judge even with multiple camera angles)
Officials are always going to make mistakes, but I'd rather they erred on the side of fair play. I'd rather more players were denied genuine fouls, than undeserved ones were given.
Imo, fans, and the pundits, need to get out of this "it's all part of the modern game"nonsense and stop excusing their own players whilst rushing to condemn others- in the long run it's the whole game that suffers.
Watching players getting a slight tap then rolling around clutching their faces or their legs buckling when they feel a gossamer hand on their shoulder is bloody annoying.
It isn't clever, it's pathetic- and it makes our game the laughing stock of the sporting world.

True, it needs guidlenes but that shouldn't rule it out all together.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Another thing that bugs me is commentators and fans views of; if a players goes down in the box, it's automatically a penalty or dive. Its not, sometimes there is a genuine coming together that is within the rules of the game.

 

[saintanton]

So no more teasing the mancs over Ashley Young? I might close this thread now

I know you're joking, but it's an interesting point.
While we continue to berate others yet exonerate our own the issue will never be taken seriously, it will just be seen as tribal banter.
Of course we'll continue to take the piss- but we have to also admit when our own do it. I quickly lost count of the times I shouted at Suarez to stay on his bloody feet.
And stop all that arm-waving business.
He never listens to me, though.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

I know you're joking, but it's an interesting point.
While we continue to berate others yet exonerate our own the issue will never be taken seriously, it will just be seen as tribal banter.
Of course we'll continue to take the piss- but we have to also admit when our own do it. I quickly lost count of the times I shouted at Suarez to stay on his bloody feet.
And stop all that arm-waving business.
He never listens to me, though.

Not everyone protects their own players

 

[saintanton]

Not everyone protects their own players

I know.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

I know you're joking, but it's an interesting point.
While we continue to berate others yet exonerate our own the issue will never be taken seriously, it will just be seen as tribal banter.
Of course we'll continue to take the piss- but we have to also admit when our own do it. I quickly lost count of the times I shouted at Suarez to stay on his bloody feet.
And stop all that arm-waving business.
He never listens to me, though.

You're right of course. Cheating is cheating, regardless of source and needs to be taken out of the game. My 12 year old lad get's punched and kicked off the ball when he plays, I see lads diving and pretending to be injured and then challenging and swearing at the the ref.....up until last season, he played rugby so is very respectful of authority on the pitch (less so off it ) and he gets battered and just gets up and gets on with it.....and I stand on the sidelines and can't help thinking that he's at a disadvantage because of this.....it's all wrong and banter aside (I hope that never stops!), we all need to condemn cheating of any kind and any player, even if he is one of our own.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

You're right of course. Cheating is cheating, regardless of source and needs to be taken out of the game. My 12 year old lad get's punched and kicked off the ball when he plays, I see lads diving and pretending to be injured and then challenging and swearing at the the ref.....up until last season, he played rugby so is very respectful of authority on the pitch (less so off it ) and he gets battered and just gets up and gets on with it.....and I stand on the sidelines and can't help thinking that he's at a disadvantage because of this.....it's all wrong and banter aside (I hope that never stops!), we all need to condemn cheating of any kind and any player, even if he is one of our own.

Again though, where does it stop? Claiming a throw-in when you know you got the last touch is cheating too. Do we tell players they're not allowed to claim anything?

Would love to rule out the imaginary cards players issue, that's one thing I will use the word hate for!

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

Again though, where does it stop? Claiming a throw-in when you know you got the last touch is cheating too. Do we tell players they're not allowed to claim anything?

Would love to rule out the imaginary cards players issue, that's one thing I will use the word hate for!

Cheating is cheating. At the very least, we need to stop players berating the refs/lino's for making a decision.

 

[Tobes]

The problem with using video replays is the old 'where do you stop'. If using it for red card offences so the referee has made the right decision to send a player off, won't teams also argue that the referee as incorrectly not sent a player off? What about when referees start to using it rather than making a decision on the pitch? Howard made made a career out of not making decisions, given the opportunity of using video replays they'll refer to it all the time rather than risk facing a public backlash.

That's a fair point, but it's not a sufficient enough reason to chuck the entire concept on the fire mate.

What needs to happen is that it's trialled (as the Dutch had planned to do until FIFA kicked it into the long grass last week ) and then what's practical and what isn't can be seen in practice as opposed to us second guessing how it'll affect the game flow etc.

One idea I've seen mooted is that both managers could have a couple of "Challenges" per game, like in Tennis. Another more simpler version is that the on field and off field refs work as a pair and constantly communicate, as sometimes a replay simply isn't neceassary it's that clear cut. It's an interesting topic and an area that the game needs to embrace rather than treat with disdain, as anything that ultimately reduces the number of bad calls can only be a good thing. We need to find a way of making it work, in some shape or form.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

That's a fair point, but it's not a sufficient enough reason to chuck the entire concept on the fire mate.

What needs to happen is that it's trialled (as the Dutch had planned to do until FIFA kicked it into the long grass last week ) and then what's practical and what isn't can be seen in practice as opposed to us second guessing how it'll affect the game flow etc.

One idea I've seen mooted is that both managers could have a couple of "Challenges" per game, like in Tennis. Another more simpler version is that the on field and off field refs work as a pair and constantly communicate, as sometimes a replay simply isn't neceassary it's that clear cut. It's an interesting topic and an area that the game needs to embrace rather than treat with disdain, as anything that ultimately reduces the number of bad calls can only be a good thing. We need to find a way of making it work, in some shape or form.

I never said it was. Maybe a appeal type system for each team like in tennis and cricket. Three appeals each to contest and decision, get it in your favour and you retain your appeal, get it wrong and you lose it.

PS...yep, I should have read the whole comment before responding

 

[astro]

That's a fair point, but it's not a sufficient enough reason to chuck the entire concept on the fire mate.

What needs to happen is that it's trialled (as the Dutch had planned to do until FIFA kicked it into the long grass last week ) and then what's practical and what isn't can be seen in practice as opposed to us second guessing how it'll affect the game flow etc.

One idea I've seen mooted is that both managers could have a couple of "Challenges" per game, like in Tennis. Another more simpler version is that the on field and off field refs work as a pair and constantly communicate, as sometimes a replay simply isn't neceassary it's that clear cut. It's an interesting topic and an area that the game needs to embrace rather than treat with disdain, as anything that ultimately reduces the number of bad calls can only be a good thing. We need to find a way of making it work, in some shape or form.

Another point is that the system merely being in place will help clear up a lot of incidents before they even happen. Why dive when you're almost 100% guaranteed to get caught? Why appeal for a penalty you know wasn't genuine when you know it won't be given and just makes you look a ****?

So all the time wasted on fake calls is regained.

 

[Tobes]

Another point is that the system merely being in place will help clear up a lot of incidents before they even happen. Why dive when you're almost 100% guaranteed to get caught? Why appeal for a penalty you know wasn't genuine when you know it won't be given and just makes you look a ****?

So all the time wasted on fake calls is regained.

Exactly.

They could combine the launch of video assitance for refs, with a new punishment for simulation - get caught diving during the game still only a yellow, but it carries over, so that if you dive again in any subsequent fixture you get a red and a 3 game ban. Do it again another straight red and a 6 match ban. To be reset every half season.

It'd disappear from the game almost overnight.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

On the appeals idea; no doubt some managers will use it to their advantage. If the opposition start to build some momentum for example.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

If both went it a committed a stupid challenge worthy of a red card each, who gets the freekick? Or would it be a drop ball?

Play on... Proper football