Hernandez, Nani, Welbeck...more mistakes?

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Treble

Treble

Keyser Söze
Feb 5, 2011
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Was it a mistake to let them go THIS season??? The one thing all three of them have is pace. The one thing we lack at the moment is pace.

Not only that, both strikers offer something different to the two clones we've been shoehorning recently up front. Welbeck can run at defences, he's strong and he holds the ball up brilliantly. Hernandez is the fox in the box, brilliant movement, can also run at defences as well as play off the shoulder and get behind defences.

Nani can play on either wing but for me is best at RW where we are lacking. If LVG can resurrect Young, why not Nani who is a technically better footballer. His ability to track back can be hit and miss but that's not to say he won't bcos he has done in the past.

Before anyone says hindsight is a wonderful thing, well yeh maybe for us fans, but where's the hindsight for the guy in charge??? Everything about the way LVG sets us up shows that at least 2 if not all 3 were absolutely suited to it. So knowing this why let them go? For an unknown crock in Falcao or a player in decline in RVP?? Wise choice by LVG? Or is this yet another example of LVG not understanding the nature of the prem?

Or was he right to let them 3 go bcos it paved the way to give new blood the opportunity? Personally I think all 3 could have made a real difference to our season.
 
I think selling Welbeck was a mistake, I said so at the time and nothing has happened to change that.
As the money we got in transfer fee will all be wasted on a one season mistake in Falcao it now looks an even worse decision.

I suppose they couldn't know how that would turn out but had we loaned Welbeck to Arsenal we could have at least got him back. He's not prolific but he scores more than Falcao and has the option of playing it wide.

Mistake, definitely.

The other two, not so. Nani has had many, many chances so I don't think he's missed and Hernandez had long since given up even trying to earn his wages.
 
Treble said:
Was it a mistake to let them go THIS season??? The one thing all three of them have is pace. The one thing we lack at the moment is pace.

Not only that, both strikers offer something different to the two clones we've been shoehorning recently up front. Welbeck can run at defences, he's strong and he holds the ball up brilliantly. Hernandez is the fox in the box, brilliant movement, can also run at defences as well as play off the shoulder and get behind defences.

Nani can play on either wing but for me is best at RW where we are lacking. If LVG can resurrect Young, why not Nani who is a technically better footballer. His ability to track back can be hit and miss but that's not to say he won't bcos he has done in the past.

Before anyone says hindsight is a wonderful thing, well yeh maybe for us fans, but where's the hindsight for the guy in charge??? Everything about the way LVG sets us up shows that at least 2 if not all 3 were absolutely suited to it. So knowing this why let them go? For an unknown crock in Falcao or a player in decline in RVP?? Wise choice by LVG? Or is this yet another example of LVG not understanding the nature of the prem?

Or was he right to let them 3 go bcos it paved the way to give new blood the opportunity? Personally I think all 3 could have made a real difference to our season.
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Was sorry to see Danny go, even in Moyes days he made the attack look sharper and has always been capable of scoring if used in the middle. Nani i think needed to get away for a while, his confidence was shot and he was never afforded the time to get it back, hope he returns and is back to his mercurial best. Hernandez went off the boil after his first 18 months, not sure if the opposition took more notice of him or if lack of game time hindered him, still think he has a place with us and would have prefered him to go somewhere other than Madrid where game time was always going to be minimal.
When looking at our attacking options for next season i always include Pea and Nani in them, so i guess i would a season away was not a mistake but to lose them would be.
 
Chief said:
I think selling Welbeck was a mistake, I said so at the time and nothing has happened to change that.
As the money we got in transfer fee will all be wasted on a one season mistake in Falcao it now looks an even worse decision.

I suppose they couldn't know how that would turn out but had we loaned Welbeck to Arsenal we could have at least got him back. He's not prolific but he scores more than Falcao and has the option of playing it wide.

Mistake, definitely.

The other two, not so. Nani has had many, many chances so I don't think he's missed and Hernandez had long since given up even trying to earn his wages.
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Bit unfair on Pea there Chief. Season one he nade a fantastic impact from the bench as a goal scorer/fox in the box but had no other impact on play (some peopled moaned about his). From season two he started to suffer injury`s quite a bit but was still getting goals and starting to improve his link-up play.
Last season his link-up and all round play had improved beyond recognition but, because of that (and the way we played) he was rarely in the box so the goals tally suffered.
He either needs a long run as one of a front two to establish his all round game or, be used as in season one (Ole like), but he should still come back to us.
 
The thing about all our good players, including Welbeck AND Carrick, is they all suffered as a result of our poor midfield. Nani in particular has not had a group of players around him of the quality of Herrera and Di Maria and Mata since the says of Tevez, Ronaldo, Saha, Scholes etc. My point is that Nani, Hernandez and Welbeck will have benefited greatly from the new players we have brought in BUT equally importantly, the players that have come in would have benefited also from Nani, Welbeck and Hernandez also.

After all, who have been our 2 most improved players this season? Young and Carrick. Last season there was serious criticism of both yet both have raised their game as a result of the quality around them, and in turn the quality around them has performed better with them two in the side.

In short, I have no doubt, we would be a more potent force had those 3 been at United this season.
 
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Welbeck has scored 4 goals for Arsenal and hasnt been great. Hernandez would be a decent option but that is it.

Nani is the one we miss. The one who would bring something to the team. Been great for sporting.
 
What they've done at their new club is irrelevant. It's what they had done previously and could still do for United which is.
Welbeck offers as many goals and way more pace than Falcao and should have stayed. Local boy too. Offering potential to improve, again something Falcao doesn't.

As Diego says, Hernandez was good for a couple of seasons but had stagnated as his chances got fewer. Was he ever going to be number 1 striker? No, he wasn't and wouldn't be if he came back. For two years he had more or less sulked at not being in the team so what would bringing him back achieve? Not a lot. Even if Falcao and rvp leave van Gaal will replace them so Hernandez is third choice at best and so sees his arse again.

Nani has best chance of the three. Personally I'd have him ahead of Januzaj every day but can see the reasoning in letting him go out on loan given we'd bought Di Maria and had Young and Valencia also out wide.

Depends if Di Maria stays I suppose. If he doesn't there's a place for Nani. Otherwise I don't see the point, unless Januzaj goes out. Young currently deserves his slot ahead of him and Valencia offers the defensive option, like it or not.
 
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It's about the squad. When you need a goal and our forwards are struggling you need a back up. Someone who will offer you more options. Welbeck's pace and hold up play, or Hernandez movement, fox in the box offer exactly that. I guarantee he would have played more for us than he has for Madrid.

Nani or Valencia or Young? You ask me that question last August and Nani wouldnt be the one I'd ship out.

BUT here's the important bit. Whatever is their long term future, I now feel they were needed for THIS season. That's the key here. After that, if they were surplus to requirements so be it. Top 4 secure, we're buying players in the summer. Job done. I'd go as far as to say I probably wouldnt want either of them back in the summer.

In effect, I think LVG has done similar to those players to what Moyes did with the back room staff.
 
Nani, hernandez, welbeck.

In order of who I would take back.

No point having a striker who doesn't score when we already have 3. Welbeck will work hard but its not enough.

Nani would compliment di maria brilliantly imo. Give di maria a licence to roam from wide and he will be great.
 
Hmmm...possibly UIR but I would gladly have him in some swap+cash deal for Carvalho who plays there. Think ahead for that holding MF / box to box role.
 
Treble said:
Hmmm...possibly UIR but I would gladly have him in some swap+cash deal for Carvalho who plays there. Think ahead for that holding MF / box to box role.
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Wingers though. Players who dare to take the opposition on. One thing Nani was never afraid yo do was run with the ball and right now we need more of it. Di maria does it but he alone isnt enough.

However I have decided depay is my summer signing of choice. So if he came then maybe use nani in a swap deal. Or keep him.
 
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Welbeck is another Heskey type player, we did well to get shot of him for 15 million. He has his uses but all he is is a willing runner, he possesses very little quality.

Nani has had so many chances, and he's proven time and time again that he'll never do it week in week out.

Hernandez is maybe the one we should have kept, I've always rated him. He's a goalscorer when faith is shown in him. I think we could use him next season,as our current strike force looks like a clapped out old banger running on fumes :biggrin:
 
Chief said:
I think selling Welbeck was a mistake, I said so at the time and nothing has happened to change that.
As the money we got in transfer fee will all be wasted on a one season mistake in Falcao it now looks an even worse decision.

I suppose they couldn't know how that would turn out but had we loaned Welbeck to Arsenal we could have at least got him back. He's not prolific but he scores more than Falcao and has the option of playing it wide.

Mistake, definitely.

The other two, not so. Nani has had many, many chances so I don't think he's missed and Hernandez had long since given up even trying to earn his wages.
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I thought they banned loans to other PL clubs unless it's an emergency loan?

Bit torn on Welbeck, he is a good squad player and offers us a strong work rate and pace, but rarely scores many and I don't think he'd ever be more than a squad player. Still, swapping him for Falcao was a gamble that has definitely not paid off.

I think Hernandez and Nani could have been given a chance to impress under LVG before being shipped off. They seem like the type of players who will respond to a change of manager, although neither of them did under Moyes, so no guarantees there. Not convinced either of them offers anything more than pace, so whilst it sounds like a good idea I think it would just make the team even more disjointed than it currently is.
 
UnitedinRed said:
Wingers though. Players who dare to take the opposition on. One thing Nani was never afraid yo do was run with the ball and right now we need more of it. Di maria does it but he alone isnt enough.

However I have decided depay is my summer signing of choice. So if he came then maybe use nani in a swap deal. Or keep him.
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Young is a winger, Januzaj is a winger and Valencia is a winger. As is Di Maria, which makes four. He doesn't use them as wingers though.

It's not the player, it's the manager. What would bringing Nani back do to make LVG suddenly decide to play with wingers?

As for Hernandez, I can only repeat that his problem over the last couple of seasons was clearly that he didn't think he was playing enough and so sulked. When he came on he was half arsed.

Do any of you seriously think he'd come back and be nailed on striker under LVG?
No, course he wouldn't be. So the problem, his problem, remains just as it was.
 
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None of those players were the future. They needed to be replaced. The mistake wasn't getting rid of them, but the fact that the replacements we signed have flopped.
 
It's all hindsight but Welbeck would definitely give you more than Falcao is at the moment and his loan fee and wages will probably cost you what you got in transfer fee for Welbeck - plus you've arguably helped strengthen a rival in the process.

Welbeck will never ever ever score bag fulls but a decent option as part of a squad - and a local lad.

The other 2 you can see why he let them go out as their United careers had stalled. A loan move can rejuvenate and Nani wouldn't be a bad option to bring back if you started playing proper wingers again.
 
Should have never let Welbeck go, said at the time it was an odd decision, and it still is. He's quick, can hold the ball up, run with the ball and will score goals from out wide or through the middle, maybe not 20 plus a season, but he will get goals.
Hernandez is one dimensional and should have gone last season. Couldn't trap a bag of spuds.
Nani has had plenty of chances. He seems to have found his confidence back in Portugal, whether he could replicate that back at Utd, I'm not so sure. Maybe worth bringing him back for a few months next season, with the view of off loading him next winter if he doesn't come through.
 
Chief said:
What they've done at their new club is irrelevant. It's what they had done previously and could still do for United which is.
Welbeck offers as many goals and way more pace than Falcao and should have stayed. Local boy too. Offering potential to improve, again something Falcao doesn't.

As Diego says, Hernandez was good for a couple of seasons but had stagnated as his chances got fewer. Was he ever going to be number 1 striker? No, he wasn't and wouldn't be if he came back. For two years he had more or less sulked at not being in the team so what would bringing him back achieve? Not a lot. Even if Falcao and rvp leave van Gaal will replace them so Hernandez is third choice at best and so sees his arse again.

Nani has best chance of the three. Personally I'd have him ahead of Januzaj every day but can see the reasoning in letting him go out on loan given we'd bought Di Maria and had Young and Valencia also out wide.

Depends if Di Maria stays I suppose. If he doesn't there's a place for Nani. Otherwise I don't see the point, unless Januzaj goes out. Young currently deserves his slot ahead of him and Valencia offers the defensive option, like it or not.
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But the problem is van gaal doesn't play with width. He prefers his full back to be his wide men. Even when he plays 4-4-2 diamond, his full backs are still the wingers. U can't expect bank to play full back.

For example in the last game against Swansea, McNair was the wide man on the right while shaw was on the left. Even when he brought young he still pulled shaw so young became a full back. Our main problem is van gaal. He has a world class winger in di maria but he choose to play him in the middle. Even if he buys bale he will play him in the middle because his full backs are his wingers be it in 3-5-2 or 4-4-2. I don't see nani performing in this formation at all. Why can't the manager just for once play with natural wide men and let full backs be full backs for 90 mins?
 
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