The Elephant in the room.....

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Great thread and a lot of good viewpoints to mull over <ok>

bigkidderz said:
...I'm no business whizkid though...
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"whizkidderz", surely :D

bigkidderz said:
While I don't want us to piss away our past and what got us where we are today, we are now at a crossroads...
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This is the scary bit for me and there's no going back once the investment ball is rolling. But considering what's been suggested in the thread already, I think the benefits could definatley outweigh the possible pitfalls. Unfortunately (or fortunately) we will probably have no choice but to adapt or be left behind ultimately.
 
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FYI... These two Americans are philanthropists, they are not the Glaziers. Take that as you will. I find it hard to get info about their time in charge of the Padres though which is odd.
 
TLF - My issue with teams like Blackburn and Villa, even Cardiff, are that when they got their investors/new owners, it was more a case of "YES! WE'RE GOING TO BE LIKE CHELSEA AND MAN CITY!" and then they hand over the company to their new owner(s) and wait for miracles to be worked.

I don't see us in that boat. We're carefully in negotiation with our potential investors. They won't hold enough of the company to do things without asking the board room first. We're not asking and waiting for millions upon billions of investment, but specifically just the money to buy/expand the stadium and sort out our training facilities. We're not asking for millions upon millions to be spent on our squad, just for them to take care of the other stuff so that the money we are generating can be focused on the squad - and we also want their contacts and know-how for sponsorship and global marketing so that the money we are generating through global merchandise and sponsorship can increase exponentially. It's certainly a case of both sides' backs being scratched.

I think our current board have a much clearer plan than "get the owners in and get spending", so that's why I don't look at other football clubs and think that we're going to have a similar experience! If we need a new player, we won't be asking the Yanks to dip into their pocket, we'll be doing it the same way as always, spending what we have. It's just with the Yanks on board, we could be earning/generating a lot more money, which in turn means we'll have more to spend.
 
We don't know what the owners of Blackburn and Villa did behind the scenes. They may well have as you put it negotiated carefully as well and just got it wrong. Saying that I am not saying I don't want this, because there probably are good investors out there, However there are an awful lor of bad obes as well. All I am saying is tread carefully because this could either be the making or the downfall of this club.
 
trundles left foot said:
We don't know what the owners of Blackburn and Villa did behind the scenes. They may well have as you put it negotiated carefully as well and just got it wrong. Saying that I am not saying I don't want this, because there probably are good investors out there, However there are an awful lor of bad obes as well. All I am saying is tread carefully because this could either be the making or the downfall of this club.
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I do completely understand your viewpoint. Unless investment is done carefully with the right people at the right time, it can go tits up. And if luck isn't on our side and we get relegated in debt, then we'd certainly be in a spot of bother. But ignoring that threat for a second and looking at where we could be, we're currently a side that if given sensible investment and increased global revenue could easily start challenging for Europe on a season-by-season basis. If the Yanks were going to come in and take a controlling 51% of the company from Day 1, then I'd be much more worried, but I think 30% is sensible. They'd have to buy more shares to have a controlling stake (again, correct me if I'm wrong), and those shares would have to come from original board members - who, as fans, certainly wouldn't sell to them if they hadn't proven themselves worthy board members in the first 2-3 years of having them on board.
 
Sorry to say I'm no financial expert but reading these comments there's too many posters with the same mindset as them up the road when tan was on the horizon .I hope I'm wrong but the "investors " are only interested in one thing , a substantial return of their money and they'll have a big say in how the Club is run ,a lot different from the present Board who's original philosophy was in "what's the best for the Club ".
Interesting quotes from Jenkins in the not so distant past
"I think we are unique the way we run our club. I think with Cardiff, they found an investor to come in and that, at the time, was right for them. I think we've all learned as football supporters, when you've got more often than not one owner, or a group of owners, that have very little attachment or affinity to the club, now and again you are going to have problems. But I think it's up to the supporters to stand as one and they hold the key to sorting it all out."

The trouble is the Supporters Trust will have even smaller impact in major decisions unless some shares are handed over from the outgoing shareholders to the Trust to strengthen their influence .
 
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We should be ok this season.My fear is next season,I want to see investment in the team ASAP.I understand the need for more seats,training facilities etc,but,let's get it right first on the pitch.
Maybe I'm over cautious.
 
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Make no mistake nobody at the club is there to lose money and are there to make money for themselves. Jinx said himself a few months ago that anyone (trust aside) can sell out their shares to make a handsome profit but if you look at what's on offer then the club could sell 30% of the shares but nobody owns more that 22% therefore it looks like its a joint sell off by two or more of the share holders who will get the money themselves and not the club. If this happens then the board will be a lot weaker and the owners of the 30% will automatic become the controllers of the club. This is not necessarily a good or bad thing as long as the new controlling body has good intentions towards the club and me personally think this is the more likely the case.
 
I agree we are now at a crossroads as a result of our flying start we should be OK this season but I am concerned for next season and beyond. We cant base our future on buying relatively cheaply and selling at a significant profit. So without investment my view is we will do no more than stay a mid table team at best or maybe become a regular relegation fighter.

We need to be realistic and any hopes of aiming at regular top 6 are not realistic but we should be aiming for say 7th to 10th on a regular basis. Control is the key element and the issue with Cardiff and Blackburn with the Indian chicken guys is that control seemed to autocratic and we need to avoid that.

So still a way to go but I am probably for it at the mo!
 
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30% major share holder position for sale for £30m which prob means £24m and a dodgy loan thrown in !

I`ve got some magic beans i think i aught to show them, going at a reasonable price for just the shirt off the clubs back !
 
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The beginning of the end for Swansea City being run uniquely. We'll be just like all the other clubs in the Prem that prioritise making a profit and paying off investors at the expense of a close relationship with its fans. It may or may not be the best thing for the Club financially I really don't know, but I'm more than a little sad. It's the romantic in me. :emoticon-0153-broke
 
Unfortunately this is the price we have to pay because of our success. We as a club have reached the very top of our limits of what we can afford to stay in the premiership. For us to remain here we must find investors who will join us and put a substantial amount of money needed to buy the calibre of players we need and afford their wages. The club wont sell 30% of shares to anyone without the assurance of the said person his intentions for the future. Of course they are doing it to make money just like the members of the current board who will make a substantial sum themselves, The club itself is a sound prospect and far better than other clubs with massive debts but it will see the end of the way we have done things in the past. We really need this investment to remain here because it is so expensive now and most of our players are just not good enough or past their sell by date and to replace these today is more than the current board can afford with everything else that is planned for the club....The more successful we become the more money it takes to remain here...
 
Seems to me we have a few board members who are getting bored? It's been a terrific journey and long may it continue, but we must remember one thing this ship is well afloat and not sinking, so no need to rush in where angels fear to tread.............<ok>
 
trundles left foot said:
My worry is that outside investment wont necessarily move you on to the next level, It can also take you backwards, just ask Villa and Blackburn fans.
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I share your concerns also but we are at a stage now that all the work that have been done at the club and what we want to do has more or less forced us to look for investment and i fully accept that and understand why the board has to go down this route, Is it a risk ? Well it could be but im sure the club have had their legal team on the case and if they are happy then why not. It could be a new chapter and a way of growing as a club...i really hope so...
 
I think you're reading too much into this. The new shareholders will not hold a controlling percentage of the club! A majority percentage, yes, but not enough to do things without consulting and getting others in the boardroom on board with their ideas.

Our investors are more of the old fashioned way of doing it. As a company, and a football club, we've grown possibly too quickly. We've done it all ourselves, but now the way we do things will probably actually lead to us starting to go backwards. You can jump into the air, but unless someone puts a stool under you, you won't stay there. It feels like the board feel this could happen to us unless we grow, we could start falling away.

So, here's an example, what could a 'normal' company do if they get to the point where their finances don't fund their company any more? They could go on Dragon's Den. Why? Because they not only need investment to keep their company going, but they can choose the right investor to sell shares to with the correct contacts and know-how of the industry to enable the company to thrive nationally or even internationally. Do these companies expect their Dragon to pump non-stop money into the company, effectively taking over and totally bank-rolling their existence? No, they get their upfront initial investment and the Dragon will use their expertise to ensure that the company becomes a success so that they see their money again and make some profit. But at the same time, they're also ensuring that the company they invested in is a success and is also more profitable than it was when they invested. Good investment is always a win for both sides.

This is how good investment works. Whether it's a football club or a bakery or an online shop, investment is the same. The fact that 99% of clubs do investment badly is no reason to believe that we will. We're proven now at doing things correctly. Despite what you may have seen at other clubs, there is actually a way to do investment properly. I can't help but feel that some people get scared of the term 'investment' when they see how badly other clubs have done it. Our board clearly have their heads screwed on and they certainly won't be bringing anyone into their boardroom that they haven't vigorously researched and interrogated.
 
Matthew Bound Still Lurks said:
Sorry to say I'm no financial expert but reading these comments there's too many posters with the same mindset as them up the road when tan was on the horizon .I hope I'm wrong but the "investors " are only interested in one thing , a substantial return of their money and they'll have a big say in how the Club is run ,a lot different from the present Board who's original philosophy was in "what's the best for the Club ".
Interesting quotes from Jenkins in the not so distant past
"I think we are unique the way we run our club. I think with Cardiff, they found an investor to come in and that, at the time, was right for them. I think we've all learned as football supporters, when you've got more often than not one owner, or a group of owners, that have very little attachment or affinity to the club, now and again you are going to have problems. But I think it's up to the supporters to stand as one and they hold the key to sorting it all out."

The trouble is the Supporters Trust will have even smaller impact in major decisions unless some shares are handed over from the outgoing shareholders to the Trust to strengthen their influence .
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Matt ... I think the Trust is holding onto their 21% stake so that with the dilution of other stock holders that sell the Trust becomes the second biggest stock holder behind the new investors at 30%. All voting rights being equal (TBD) that would strengthen the Trust's clout and implies that our representative on the Board have sufficient business credentials to be an active director and not a tea and biscuit boy. The 2nd largest stock holder in any company that is on the board should be capable of competently participating in all board level work.
 
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