Off Topic 12 dead in paris shooting

[qprbeth]

yeh whatever

Thank you Stan for the considered response....but Uber you just blew my mind...you are so right...

But we, Uber and Stan, are the people who feel no desire to control (whatever Swordsy might think)...the world is populated by control freaks...the biggest problem that exists...that is the sin of the world ...total control...

 

[rangercol]

IMO there should be no faith schools of any kind. Religion should not be taught in a biased way and there should be no Government link to religion. Preach it in Churches, Synagogues, Mosques etc and in the home if people so wish. All schools should outline ALL religious beliefs to young people so that they can then make their own minds up.
There should be no link to the Monarchy with religion as there is at present either.

Religion has caused so much disharmony and blood shed and it really is time that it was sidelined to people's homes and places of worship imo.

 

[Stroller]

IMO there should be no faith schools of any kind. Religion should not be taught in a biased way and there should be no Government link to religion. Preach it in Churches, Synagogues, Mosques etc and in the home if people so wish. All schools should outline ALL religious beliefs to young people so that they can then make their own minds up.
There should be no link to the Monarchy with religion as there is at present either.

Religion has caused so much disharmony and blood shed and it really is time that it was sidelined to people's homes and places of worship imo.

This.

It's a sad irony that the religion-fuelled killings that sparked this thread took place in a secular state.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

IMO there should be no faith schools of any kind. Religion should not be taught in a biased way and there should be no Government link to religion. Preach it in Churches, Synagogues, Mosques etc and in the home if people so wish. All schools should outline ALL religious beliefs to young people so that they can then make their own minds up.
There should be no link to the Monarchy with religion as there is at present either.

Religion has caused so much disharmony and blood shed and it really is time that it was sidelined to people's homes and places of worship imo.

If you'll forgive me, Col, that's a fairly typical opinion from somebody that doesn't have strong faith, but quite reasonably expects people to be sufficiently educated to be able to make some connection through understanding to people of different faiths. Nothing at all wrong with that. But for parents with particularly strong faith, and with the option of a nearby faith school, I can fully understand why they'd prefer that their offspring be educated in this way. Why wouldn't they?

 

[Stroller]

If you'll forgive me, Col, that's a fairly typical opinion from somebody that doesn't have strong faith, but quite reasonably expects people to be sufficiently educated to be able to make some connection through understanding to people of different faiths. Nothing at all wrong with that. But for parents with particularly strong faith, and with the option of a nearby faith school, I can fully understand why they'd prefer that their offspring be educated in this way. Why wouldn't they

Isn't that the point though Uber? There shouldn't be that option.

 

[rangercol]

If you'll forgive me, Col, that's a fairly typical opinion from somebody that doesn't have strong faith, but quite reasonably expects people to be sufficiently educated to be able to make some connection through understanding to people of different faiths. Nothing at all wrong with that. But for parents with particularly strong faith, and with the option of a nearby faith school, I can fully understand why they'd prefer that their offspring be educated in this way. Why wouldn't they

Of course those parents will sent their offspring to a faith school if it's there. They wouldn't be able to if there were none though.
By sending their children to a faith school that tells these kids that their religion is the ONLY correct one and all others are wrong or, in the worst cases, non-believing infidels etc, is surely just encouraging inward thinking and discrimination?

Teach kids all versions of the fairy tales and let them make their own minds up. Religion has been far too powerful for far too long imo.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Thank you Stan for the considered response....but Uber you just blew my mind...you are so right...

But we, Uber and Stan, are the people who feel no desire to control (whatever Swordsy might think)...the world is populated by control freaks...the biggest problem that exists...that is the sin of the world ...total control...

Thanks Vern.

Another interesting observation made by Hitchens C. and others is that so many religions have had prophets and other significant figures that have wandered off into the wilderness, or sat on their lonesome in a cave or whatever, when they've received their holy visitation. Why is it that an all-powerful creator only seeks to drop by on one or two individuals out in the middle of nowhere? If you're a deity anxious to put mankind right on something, then surely a more convincing approach would be to appear before ****ing hundreds or us, wouldn't it?

It fascinates me that the Abrahams, Moseses and Mohammeds of various religions all claimed to have had such visitations and all were sufficiently convincing to a myriad people (and there umpteen descendants). The cynics amongst us might be forgiven for suggesting that these three chaps and their like (good or bad) each conveniently found themselves in influential, powerful leadership roles as a consequence.

 

[rangercol]

There are so many similarities in the various religions, like virgin births for example that it is clear that they are just re-hashed stories that date back thousands of years.
I am convinced that religion will be either outlawed or confined to people's homes and places of worship within a couple of hundred years.

 

[Stroller]

Thanks Vern.

Another interesting observation made by Hitchens C. and others is that so many religions have had prophets and other significant figures that have wandered off into the wilderness, or sat on their lonesome in a cave or whatever, when they've received their holy visitation. Why is it that an all-powerful creator only seeks to drop by on one or two individuals out in the middle of nowhere? If you're a deity anxious to put mankind right on something, then surely a more convincing approach would be to appear before ****ing hundreds or us, wouldn't it?

It fascinates me that the Abrahams, Moseses and Mohammeds of various religions all claimed to have had such visitations and all were sufficiently convincing to a myriad people (and there umpteen descendants). The cynics amongst us might be forgiven for suggesting that these three chaps and their like (good or bad) each conveniently found themselves in influential, powerful leadership roles as a consequence.

This is well worth watching if you haven't seen it....

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[Uber_Hoop]

Isn't that the point though Uber? There shouldn't be that option.

But that's just your opinion, Stroller. The parents with strong faith would naturally have a different one. I have never been to a faith school, whether Christian, Islamic, Hindu or whatever, so I can't comment on the strength of the teachings. I can imagine that some are more zealous with their teachings than others, but I wouldn't personally seek to close them all down because of some bad apples. As I see it these days and in the West, the problem isn't faith schools per se, but the fact that we've got too many different faiths (including no faith whatsoever) all trying to occupy the same crowded space.

If we were all anti-theist (your dream) or if we were all Jewish, or if we were all Muslims, or if we were all Christian, then we wouldn't be debating this as an issue. Sadly, it's because of all the different religions and so forth that there's an issue. Dispensing with all organised religion is one possible solution. All of us becoming Hindus is another.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

There are so many similarities in the various religions, like virgin births for example that it is clear that they are just re-hashed stories that date back thousands of years.
I am convinced that religion will be either outlawed or confined to people's homes and places of worship within a couple of hundred years.

That's one step away from Stalin's Russia, Col.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

This is well worth watching if you haven't seen it....

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Yes, saw it at the time, Stroller. Quite a plausible series of events, if memory serves.

 

[Stroller]

But that's just your opinion, Stroller. The parents with strong faith would naturally have a different one. I have never been to a faith school, whether Christian, Islamic, Hindu or whatever, so I can't comment on the strength of the teachings. I can imagine that some are more zealous with their teachings than other, but I wouldn't personally seek to close them all down because of some bad apples. As I see it these days and in the West, the problem isn't faith schools per se, but the fact that we've got too many different faiths (including no faith whatsoever) all trying to occupy the same crowded space.

If we were all anti-theist (your dream) or if we were all Jewish, or if we were all Muslims, or if we were all Christian, then we wouldn't be debating this as an issue. Sadly, it's because of all the different religions and so forth that there's an issue. Dispensing with all organised religion is one possible solution. All of us becoming Hindus is another.

I would like to think that if I did have a strong faith, I would be reasonable enough not to impose my beliefs on my children. But then I would be a different person altogether, so who knows?

 

[Stroller]

That's one step away from Stalin's Russia, Col.

As Richard Dawkins said, 'we no longer believe in dragons and unicorns so there must be hope that religion will just die out'. Something like that, anyway.

 

[KooPeeArr]

I went to a fairly enthused CofE primary school (bible based assembly every day) and turned out atheist. My mum's agnostic to atheist leanings may have ensured a lack of corruption of my mind or I might just be completely stubborn, I just don't know.

The education itself was decent enough but didn't even mention other faiths at any point. The sense of morality/ethics was good and I still maintain that religion is good for those without strong enough independent conviction to form their own.

I am also highly amused by the widespread belief on here that all incoming people need to embrace our culture while we also try to move towards an atheist state.

If we don't like the county, perhaps we should **** off too?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

As Richard Dawkins said, 'we no longer believe in dragons and unicorns so there must be hope that religion will just die out'. Something like that, anyway.

There will always be a cult or ideology somewhere. You just need to fool enough people enough of the time. It's rather like the deliberate dumbing down of education and the attempted lowering of the voting age, both of which are just designed to keep the ruling classes in situ.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

I went to a fairly enthused CofE primary school (bible based assembly every day) and turned out atheist. My mum's agnostic to atheist leanings may have ensured a lack of corruption of my mind or I might just be completely stubborn, I just don't know.

The education itself was decent enough but didn't even mention other faiths at any point. The sense of morality/ethics was good and I still maintain that religion is good for those without strong enough independent conviction to form their own.

I am also highly amused by the widespread belief on here that all incoming people need to embrace our culture while we also try to move towards an atheist state.

If we don't like the county, perhaps we should **** off too?

There are many Hindu and Muslim families that send their kids to the local CofE school here because it has a good educational reputation. I suppose it's gratifying that parents will ride roughshod over their religious faith if it means getting the best education for the sprogs.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

I would like to think that if I did have a strong faith, I would be reasonable enough not to impose my beliefs on my children. But then I would be a different person altogether, so who knows?

The keyword is STRONG, innit?

 

[Swords Hoopster.]

I have never been to a faith school.

I went to one cos as far as I know that's all there is here

The reason I thought Stan went a bit OTT, even though I agree with him entirely in principle, is because my experience was certainly not one of hate. It was actually entirely benign. An hour's worth of religious "instruction" on a friday in which the pupils all knew by the time they were 10 was a load of tosh and in which the teacher's themselves could barely contain themselves when supposedly teaching it, and a trip to the Church about once a year for a service was the sum total of the religious input. I know it was very different decades ago but in my time the schools were religious almost in name only and I suspect that's the same with Christian schools in England. I'd be much more concerned with Islamic schools considering Islam is the most dogmatic and restrictive religion there is.

As COL says, it would be best if religion was kept entirely out of the curriculum and kept a private matter.

 

[rangercol]

That's one step away from Stalin's Russia, Col.

"Dispensing with all organised religion is one possible solution."

Your words mate.