Racism

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luvgonzo

luvgonzo

Pisshead
Jan 26, 2011
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Jubilee Street
A nice friendly thread for Saturday morning.

Twice this week has the subject of racism come up within my family so I thought I'd share and create a thread that is bound to get silly at some point.

Firstly my wife referred to a person as "the coloured lady" and got the comment "It's like being in the room with my nan!"

Secondly my son (8 years old) was in the car with my oldest and his friend who is black, my son randomly comes out with" black people can't be legends, I read it in a book!" I wasn't aware that Horrid Henry books were so diversive but there you go.

I'm of the opinion that there will always be certain words that we shouldn't use and it seems those words change (a lot) but at the end of the day it's the way that the words are used and the feeling behind them that is more important.

So over to you.
 
I reckon it will have to end up like ginger people getting slagged off..... In about 50 years maybe

It is as natural for an 8 year old just as an example to wonder about hair color as eye color as skin color... Perfectly natural... It's what their head gets filled with when they ask that's the problem

In any event..... Equality of opportunity over time is the only thing that will genuinely remove chips on shoulders on all sides of this particular issue

Hell there's still raging feminists claiming rampant discrimination today over 100 years into the "suffragette" movement no?
 
With the 'coloured lady' thing I think a lot of people dont know what is the right thing to say. Some people get cautious about referring to some one as black so go with coloured, or another term. But black is the preferred word.

In other cases its just old habits from a former generation that still have not quite faded away.
 
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Flappy Flanagan (JK) said:
With the 'coloured lady' thing I think a lot of people dont know what is the right thing to say. Some people get cautious about referring to some one as black so go with coloured, or another term. But black is the preferred word.

In other cases its just old habits from a former generation that still have not quite faded away.
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My wife was a bit annoyed and asked what she should say and was told "Black", I said it doesn't matter it's the way it is said that counts.
 
Hmmm, I can guess where this will end up.

People need to understand the difference between a descriptor and a pejorative before they get on their high horses about things. Unfortunately, there are too many axes to grind out there and often insult is taken where there is no intent.
 
For me the context is by far the more important factor. With the wife example, ifshe was trying to describe who she was talking about out of a group of three very similar ladies with the exception that one was black, thEn I really dont see any issue there at all. Ok, maybe a quiet word to let her know some hypersensitive people may misinterpret the comment would not hurt.

Pretty much all of us agree using the n word is not acceptable. Are two black people referring to each other as 'my n' now racist?
 
I thought 'black' was alright and a standard reference to use as it's actually more empowering for people of that ethnicity than it is derogatory anymore.

Context and intended meaning comes into it though. Obviously if somebody called someone 'a black so and so' then that's unacceptable, but if you're just pointing out a mate or acquaintance to someone else you know and say 'you know he's the black guy who always works out here on Thursday nights' than that's fine and completely inoffensive.

I find the epithet 'coloured' really awkward and cringey, definitely more racisty than 'black', plus every human being in the world is some sort of 'coloured' so it doesn't work as an exclusive adjective for someone.

A lot of the time you hear people say 'The Asian guy' to describe somebody. That kind of works because you know largely the characteristics being referred to... obviously there are different kinds of Asian... Chinese/Japanese/Korean and Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi etc etc but you can work it out. With African, African-American, Caribbean people / ethnicities it can be harder to determine where in the world they originally come from, so you can't always say 'the Jamaican person' (unless a rasta or Bob Marley) or 'the Senagalese person' (unless playing for them at AfCON) which would probably be the most appropriate and likely inoffensive method of referring to them for everyone, PC brigade and normal people just trying to get by. Instead you use the catch all 'black' in lieu of 'Asian' or whatever, just to refer to the general culture (although there are of course many separate and distinctive cultures held under that banner).
 
RedLadllana said:
I thought 'black' was alright and a standard reference to use as it's actually more empowering for people of that ethnicity than it is derogatory anymore.

Context and intended meaning comes into it though. Obviously if somebody called someone 'a black so and so' then that's unacceptable, but if you're just pointing out a mate or acquaintance to someone else you know and say 'you know he's the black guy who always works out here on Thursday nights' than that's fine and completely inoffensive.

I find the epithet 'coloured' really awkward and cringey, definitely more racisty than 'black', plus every human being in the world is some sort of 'coloured' so it doesn't work as an exclusive adjective for someone.

A lot of the time you hear people say 'The Asian guy' to describe somebody. That kind of works because you know largely the characteristics being referred to... obviously there are different kinds of Asian... Chinese/Japanese/Korean and Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi etc etc but you can work it out. With African, African-American, Caribbean people / ethnicities it can be harder to determine where in the world they originally come from, so you can't always say 'the Jamaican person' (unless a rasta or Bob Marley) or 'the Senagalese person' (unless playing for them at AfCON) which would probably be the most appropriate and likely inoffensive method of referring to them for everyone, PC brigade and normal people just trying to get by. Instead you use the catch all 'black' in lieu of 'Asian' or whatever, just to refer to the general culture (although there are of course many separate and distinctive cultures held under that banner).
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Plus it's stupid, as if white people's skin has no colour cos we're transparent right? <laugh>
 
Sisu said:
Literally? <yikes> I suppose Greez maybe, he's completely transparent after he takes a dump
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Although I was speaking metaphorically, skin is translucent to a degree if not transparent.
Every time I flay myself for religious purposes I'm struck by how much light comes through it.
 
luvgonzo said:
My wife was a bit annoyed and asked what she should say and was told "Black", I said it doesn't matter it's the way it is said that counts.
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Like jk said, black people see the term " coloured" as a throwback to slavery and the kkk stuff in the deep south.

Was told that by a black guy in the US, your wife didn't know so there should be understanding and friendly explanation from the offended person if a genuine mistake was made.
 
Think about the following sentence before you knee-jerk. Everyone is racist to some degree.

I'm guessing your wife doesn't come into contact with many non-whites or she would have picked up on not using the word 'coloured' by now. As saint says, it's the intent behind the words that causes offence and she obviously didn't mean any harm. I do wonder what book your 8 year old read that said 'black people can't be legends'. He may actually have it mixed up with something like 'I've never read any legends about black people.' ??
 
johnsonsbaby said:
Think about the following sentence before you knee-jerk. Everyone is racist to some degree.

I'm guessing your wife doesn't come into contact with many non-whites or she would have picked up on not using the word 'coloured' by now. As saint says, it's the intent behind the words that causes offence and she obviously didn't mean any harm. I do wonder what book your 8 year old read that said 'black people can't be legends'. He may actually have it mixed up with something like 'I've never read any legends about black people.' ??
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Horrid Henry and Diary of a Wimpy Kid. <laugh>

Like you suggest he's just misread something.
 
Words genuinely used without intent to cause hurt or offence are just words

It's on this point that PC world in which we now live has lost its sense of perspective
 
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What did the book mean by 'legend' though, Luv?? 'Legend' as it's over-used in the colloquial sense by people wishing to identify someone who could have done anything, like a mate who's managed to land a bit of paper in an egg cup from the other side of the room... 'oh, you're a legend mate!'

OR, 'legend' in the correct sense denoting a mythical or semi-mythical story from history about a specific hero and set of events. In this case i'm inclined to agree, as there aren't very many black heroes in western literature, especially from before the Victorian era. So what tradition of legends was the book alluding to??
 
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