Gullit seems to be confusing being a great player with being part of a great team. You can do one without the other, though sometimes you can have both.
I can't entirely agree with that. Yes, in the case of Finney, or even Mathews, I think they would just be classed as good, or very good players now. But the natural skills of the like of Maradona, Pele, or Cruyff would still shine in any era.
Possibly, but footballers are fitter, faster and stronger due to diet, medical treatment etc just like all athletes are in all sports. That's why running a four minute mile is no big deal anymore - club runners can do it. You have to factor this into the analysis. I think you can only ever say that a player was great in his own generation, Comparing across the generations involves speculation, the main points of conjecture being how much physicality, strength and athleticism has changed and are relevant. It raises the issue too about the extent to which talent is innate or acquired through practice. Ronaldo is clearly skilful, but also owes much to a well honed physique and the benefits that brings in terms of his power and energy and overall capability.
I’ve only scanned the comments, but I would emphasize the ability to help win games against top opposition. This is where I think the best England has to offer since Scholes have fallen short. Gerrard has been no more than decent in international competitions, and Rooney and Lampard poor. No doubt they’ve been outstanding in the PL, and sometimes in the cups, but how much of that was due to superior teammates and typically inferior opposition? I’m not really serious, but Kane was great for one game against Chelsea. As the commentator pointed out "Kane is blowing the doors off Chelsea." A player on a weaker team was dismantling one of the top teams in Europe. One swallow doesn’t make a summer, as we all knew in high school, but I think a great player has to have many games like that. Gerrard had one in the CL final. Rooney had one in his first Euros. But I’m not thinking of other examples of their greatness. Xavi was a key part of many wins at the top level for club and country. Of course, some players play for small countries, and can’t be expected to win international competitions. Still, someone like Drogba always seemed like more of a key figure for Chelsea, and less dependent on teammates creating opportunities for him, than someone like Lampard. Another player I don’t like much, Ibrahimovic, has often shone on the biggest stage. Still on the theme of players I dislike, I think Modric may have made a better case for himself than Bale. Modric really seemed to improve Real when he took over a starting role. Whether Bale did was debatable. He has a stronger claim to greatness in the year he was the designated hero with us, regularly winning games with his ability to score from distance.
Agree very much NSIS in fact I was going to include him with the list of greats I suggested earlier. It's only ever forwards that seem to win the plaudits and that can't be right in a game where defence is such a crucial part. Maldini is a true great and should feature in any list of all time greats IMO.
You're right, I don't mean after their careers are finished. Messi and Ronaldo have both won countless trophies and broken countless records with their performances. They will both be remembered forever as the two best players of their generation, even though they both still have a way to go in their careers. That would be the case if their careers ended tomorrow IMO. Kane has been a game changer and a great player by any definition this season so far, but he could fade into obscurity from today and not be remembered as a great. Players can do enough by half way into their careers to justify the tag of greatness, such players are a minority though. I guess there comes a point where a player has performed to a standard high enough for a long enough time to be considered great, whether they're 36 or 26 at the point where we decide that they're worthy of the tag. Where that point comes depends on the individual player and how well they perform, and where they perform etc.
Goalkeepers are the easiest to identify as "great players". A great goalkeeper makes a noticeable difference. De Gea has been great this season; Lloris too. Over time Shilton, Seaman and Schmeichel proved how great they were. You can look at the performances of each and say that was where x or y was won.
I think if I was a kid again I would have pictures of Lloris all over the bedroom walls.I think he is great.How did we manage to get him to the Lane? Matthews and Finney.Fantastic players and completely different.There are no wingers like them in the PL. I must admit to admiring Best and R.Charlton with United in their day and willing them on in that European Cup Final at Wembley so long ago. It's all Spurs for me today.......
John Charles. Pat Jennings. Dave Mackay. Di Stefano. Puskas. Roberto Carlos.Garrincha. Yashin. Beckenbauer. The whole late 1940s forward line comprising Tom Finney, Wilf Mannion, Tommy Lawton, Stan Mortensen and Stanley Matthews. And a few of the guys behind them: Frank Swift, Billy Wright, Neil Franklin. But let's have a few more defenders on the list, eh?
no one has mentioned Greavsie,he must be up there as a game changer,and once he was homing in on goal,no one could get the ball off him
I still can't believe that, after the World Cup final, some of the BBC pundits were saying Messi can't be considered a great player as he hasn't won a World Cup. That doesn't seem to have done Johan Cruyff's reputation any harm - and that must mean George Best was ****, as he never even played in a World Cup!
you can write a book (several have) but the truth is when observing truly great players there is no explanation needed as in their very own manner they simply are great and uniquely beyond the norm For me one game watching the likes of John Charles-Jimmy Greaves--Bobby Moore--Pele--Tom Finney etc and all giving very different skills were unmistakeably great players
I do think that great players are generational, and when I recall the players from my youth the greats were Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller, and I think each generation has its 'greats' many of the names here bring back great memories, a few other names to add to the list from my opinion would be Kempes, Zico, Socrates, Mattheus, Klinsmann, Van Basten, Baggio, Zidane, Ronaldo (Brazillian), Cannavaro, Buffon, and Chris Waddle! Scorer of great goals for Spurs, Englands most consistent performer at Italia 90, (better than Gazza who took all the plaudits) and he almost single handedly got Marseille to a European Cup Final in 1991. I would love to add 'Super' Bob Taylor this list as well a true Gillingham great, but not quite at the level of the others mentioned here.
I'd like to see your lists of the......dirtiest players. Peter Storey of Arsenal and Billy Bremner would head my list with John Higgins of Bolton running a close second! Lord.With todays refs giving away red cards like free beer,they would spend more time off the field than on!
