Sky football

[Magnet]

Taken from the Leicester forum. A bit long but well worth the read.

http://www.thedaisycutter.co.uk/2014/11/how-supporters-became-the-new-villains-of-modern-football/

A well written and basically true summary of modern football. This does extend to us now in so many ways with Pardew's departure being the fans fault despite his record of the last 12 months being just the most recent where the Toon Army are at fault according to so called experts and Sky loving media writers.

 

[ClearlyDeludedGloryHunter]

I really can't argue with a word of that.

The parallels are with rugby union. When I used to play it was a bloke's game. Yes, we'd get 'top stars' turning up to the club for a game cap in hand sometime and then to raise hell in the bar afterwards. And then it all changed. Debentures for seats, large stadium, the regional game vanishing in a puff of middle management. We'd get Team England and the top Welsh clubs all became brands by merging into a Dragons or an Ospreys.

That died soon out. The fan who loved the smell of the wintergreen stayed away and the game as we know started to die when the television moved onto Strictly Asset Strip The Heirloom in the Attic.

Football will go the same way soon when the false props of television money will move elsewhere. And I, for one, can't wait for the day.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Nothing new. Most of us have been saying this for goodness knows how long. Sky killed football in this country. We sold out and we're never getting it back.

 

[Sheikh_of_Araby]

The top flight clubs are lost to the average fan. They are major international businesses consumed by a desire to increase profit. Sky TV created that monster with the Premier League brand. The football association also take the blame for sanctioning the original breakaway. I hate watching the PL. It is the worst thing to happen to the game in this country. It is killing the grassroots game as all of the money is concentrated at the top. Kids are being turned off football. The England team don't appeal any more. I used to love watching International games. Yesterday was the final nail. The FA Cup - The oldest and greatest cup competition. Not any more. It is dying. Third round day used to be special. The PL clubs treat it with disdain.

 

[Heed]

Don't you just yearn for those pre Sky days.

Those heady days of standing in unsafe ramshackle stadia across the land, in a glorious time when English football was dying on its feet.

 

[Blacker-than-Knight]

Don't you just yearn for those pre Sky days.

Those heady days of standing in unsafe ramshackle stadia across the land, in a glorious time when English football was dying on its feet.

Yeah I really yearn for the days when Bradfords stadium caught fire and so many died horribly, or sheffield and the Hillsborough disaster, the vicious hooligans who really did want to kill you, the rank stadiums, mud bath pitches, blatent racsim, being kicked by adults cause the ****ing kids are in the way and all the other wonderful rose tinted ****e of pre Sky football, it was a ****ing cesspit.

 

[Magnet]

Yeah I really yearn for the days when Bradfords stadium caught fire and so many died horribly, or sheffield and the Hillsborough disaster, the vicious hooligans who really did want to kill you, the rank stadiums, mud bath pitches, blatent racsim, being kicked by adults cause the ****ing kids are in the way and all the other wonderful rose tinted ****e of pre Sky football, it was a ****ing cesspit.

If Sky's money hadn't come in I agree we would not have the library stadiums we now have but to suggest we would still have the hooligans, the racism, the kids being kicked by adults is simply ignoring how Society has moved on.

If you're then left with old stadiums, no mercenaries, mud bath pitches and players who do care and try as they aren't multi millionaires who don't care if they are playing because a lot of games at Christmas is tiring then yes I would happily do without Sky's money.

 

[YankMag]

I think the only way to save the game is to set a salary cap. In the NFL the poorest teams (IE green bay packers which are owned by the fans) can turn into powerhouses with good scouting and smart business moves. Mike should have bought an NFL team.

 

[Heed]

Without the Sky cashflow English football would have been on its knees years ago, the Top Division would be akin to the SPL at best.
As much as people might look at it with disdain, without it, clubs like NUFC, SAFC, and many others would've been in **** street a long time back.
Money is the only reason we were able to compete at the Top Table in English Football and have the European nights we had in the past 20 years.

The richer clubs will always be at the top, its never been any different, and it will never change.

 

[Magnet]

Without the Sky cashflow English football would have been on its knees years ago, the Top Division would be akin to the SPL at best.
As much as people might look at it with disdain, without it, clubs like NUFC, SAFC, and many others would've been in **** street a long time back.
Money is the only reason we were able to compete at the Top Table in English Football and have the European nights we had in the past 20 years.

The richer clubs will always be at the top, its never been any different, and it will never change.

I agree that Sky money has had pluses. But the minuses outweigh the pluses.

If England didn't have Sky money then the rest of Europe would be in the same boat. The richer clubs would be at the top but the difference between the "haves" and "have not's" would not be so great and there would have been more chance for the Derby's and Notts Forests of the world to have an occasional go at the title not just the cup.

 

[Lord Jonjomort]

I think the only way to save the game is to set a salary cap. In the NFL the poorest teams (IE green bay packers which are owned by the fans) can turn into powerhouses with good scouting and smart business moves. Mike should have bought an NFL team.

Salary cap, with the EU, isn't ever going to happen. The day capitalism becomes something altogether more altruistic is the day we can talk salary caps, i.e. never.

The option for me is either NFL style drafts, where there is one large European league and everything else is just "college football", or transfer "tickets", where you get to buy only 3 net new players per calendar year (i.e. if you lose on, you can replace and still buy 3). The encouragement on then developing your youth would be fantastic and, ultimately, essential.

The only ones losing out in the latter scenario are scum-of-the-earth agents and Jim White. Who's crying about that?!

 

[General Lee Speaking]

Yeah I really yearn for the days when Bradfords stadium caught fire and so many died horribly, or sheffield and the Hillsborough disaster, the vicious hooligans who really did want to kill you, the rank stadiums, mud bath pitches, blatent racsim, being kicked by adults cause the ****ing kids are in the way and all the other wonderful rose tinted ****e of pre Sky football, it was a ****ing cesspit.

Don't forget the rivers of piss. Some posters here won't remember that or the putrid open air 'toilets' in the Gallowgate before it was redeveloped (with Sky TV money).

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Yeah I really yearn for the days when Bradfords stadium caught fire and so many died horribly, or sheffield and the Hillsborough disaster, the vicious hooligans who really did want to kill you, the rank stadiums, mud bath pitches, blatent racsim, being kicked by adults cause the ****ing kids are in the way and all the other wonderful rose tinted ****e of pre Sky football, it was a ****ing cesspit.

Er I think football was already moving forward as result of the disasters mentioned. Sky money just made it easier for clubs to do so. I don't think anybody minds the money coming in to a point. It wasn't thought through at all by the FA though who have now become an empty vessel. That is shocking, our own FA are nothing more than the PL's bitch. The influx was not managed and has had a terrible impact on the structure of our game.

As others have mentioned the other problems were not football led. They were problems deep rooted throughout society in this country. Sky money hasn't magically solved these problems. Society, thankfully, has simply moved forward - and football with it.

I'd kill for a good old mud bath pitch - maybe we wouldn't get so many injuries from our semi plastic affair

Germany has seen a massive influx of cash. It has been managed much more professionally. They also still have perfectly safe standing areas. I've been to a couple of games in Germany, the atmosphere in the ground and whole match day experience pummels our "Sky created" wonderland into submission. Why? Largely because they don't over-react. Don't get me wrong, the money is flowing in there too. However the DFB is still fully in charge of the national game. The clubs have been subject to financial fair play rules for years, clubs in other leagues spend a much greater percentage of revenue on player salaries, they have the highest average attendance in the world as a league - mainly because they don't charge the earth and fleece the fans.

As the great tax evader Hoeness put it "We do not think the fans are like cows to be milked. Football has got to be for everybody. That's the biggest difference between us and England" Sadly he is bang on the money.

If there some way to wrestle back the power from the PL and Sky, start running football properly again, I'd do it in a heartbeat. However we have allowed this piss parade to go on so long it is difficult to see a way out.

 

[Blacker-than-Knight]

Er I think football was already moving forward as result of the disasters mentioned. Sky money just made it easier for clubs to do so. I don't think anybody minds the money coming in to a point. It wasn't thought through at all by the FA though who have now become an empty vessel. That is shocking, our own FA are nothing more than the PL's bitch. The influx was not managed and has had a terrible impact on the structure of our game.

As others have mentioned the other problems were not football led. They were problems deep rooted throughout society in this country. Sky money hasn't magically solved these problems. Society, thankfully, has simply moved forward - and football with it.

I'd kill for a good old mud bath pitch - maybe we wouldn't get so many injuries from our semi plastic affair

Germany has seen a massive influx of cash. It has been managed much more professionally. They also still have perfectly safe standing areas. I've been to a couple of games in Germany, the atmosphere in the ground and whole match day experience pummels our "Sky created" wonderland into submission. Why? Largely because they don't over-react. Don't get me wrong, the money is flowing in there too. However the DFB is still fully in charge of the national game. The clubs have been subject to financial fair play rules for years, clubs in other leagues spend a much greater percentage of revenue on player salaries, they have the highest average attendance in the world as a league - mainly because they don't charge the earth and fleece the fans.

As the great tax evader Hoeness put it "We do not think the fans are like cows to be milked. Football has got to be for everybody. That's the biggest difference between us and England" Sadly he is bang on the money.

If there some way to wrestle back the power from the PL and Sky, start running football properly again, I'd do it in a heartbeat. However we have allowed this piss parade to go on so long it is difficult to see a way out.

Read the quote I was responding to, not about if there was no Sky money and what it would be like now, just going back in time to ramshackle stadiums etc, as for Germany and standing areas we are as nations very different in how we approach things, do you see all these Germans getting pissed out of their minds on holiday and behaving like invading thugs as much of our youth and even middle aged do now, I don't go anywhere near package holiday resorts or the popular mass market holiday destinations. Simmilarly having visited Germany many times you don't see the quite appalling drunken behaviour that has become the hallmark of Fridays and Saturday nights in this country and quite often at many social gatherings from weddings, parties, funerals and christenings, I have worked for over 30 years in hotels and high street bar operations and the general behaviour is quite appalling and getting worse, other nationalities can enjoy themselves without hitting the destruct button that seems to be part of the English Psyche and whilst I understand standing areas working Germany I think the way some people behave here would lead to problems.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Read the quote I was responding to, not about if there was no Sky money and what it would be like now, just going back in time to ramshackle stadiums etc, as for Germany and standing areas we are as nations very different in how we approach things, do you see all these Germans getting pissed out of their minds on holiday and behaving like invading thugs as much of our youth and even middle aged do now, I don't go anywhere near package holiday resorts or the popular mass market holiday destinations. Simmilarly having visited Germany many times you don't see the quite appalling drunken behaviour that has become the hallmark of Fridays and Saturday nights in this country and quite often at many social gatherings from weddings, parties, funerals and christenings, I have worked for over 30 years in hotels and high street bar operations and the general behaviour is quite appalling and getting worse, other nationalities can enjoy themselves without hitting the destruct button that seems to be part of the English Psyche and whilst I understand standing areas working Germany I think the way some people behave here would lead to problems.

I don't doubt the drinking culture is different. However I don't think see why standing/seating in football stadiums would have anything to do with that - or present any difference between the two. I attend most Newcastle matches and there is no huge problem inside the stadiums with regard to alcohol. Standing will not change that.

You're not suddenly going to go back to the dark old days. I noticed it before and when the stadium redevelopment began. The experience in the early days was very different. I always stood in the Gallowgate. It was brutal in the early days but by the late 80's things were beginning to change. By the time I shifted to the Milburn Paddocks to follow the last standing area, there was a much safer and better behaved fanbase. Younguns were looked after, nobody was pissing in the stand. Yeah there was still a bit of bad language but no trouble through self indulgence etc.

It is perfectly possible to have safe standing. I don't think the same culture that is evident in the city centres late at night etc, is also evident in the stadiums. The derby day told you that. Barely an arrest in the ground, but down in the city centre where the drinking is heavy, a very different story.

I can't see a particularly strong argument against standing. All my best experiences of games at SJP are standing. Its just better, hence the Germans retained it.

 

[Sheikh_of_Araby]

I don't doubt the drinking culture is different. However I don't think see why standing/seating in football stadiums would have anything to do with that - or present any difference between the two. I attend most Newcastle matches and there is no huge problem inside the stadiums with regard to alcohol. Standing will not change that.

You're not suddenly going to go back to the dark old days. I noticed it before and when the stadium redevelopment began. The experience in the early days was very different. I always stood in the Gallowgate. It was brutal in the early days but by the late 80's things were beginning to change. By the time I shifted to the Milburn Paddocks to follow the last standing area, there was a much safer and better behaved fanbase. Younguns were looked after, nobody was pissing in the stand. Yeah there was still a bit of bad language but no trouble through self indulgence etc.

It is perfectly possible to have safe standing. I don't think the same culture that is evident in the city centres late at night etc, is also evident in the stadiums. The derby day told you that. Barely an arrest in the ground, but down in the city centre where the drinking is heavy, a very different story.

I can't see a particularly strong argument against standing. All my best experiences of games at SJP are standing. Its just better, hence the Germans retained it.

I actually think we will have safe standing in this country at some point. St James on match days is surreal. There is literally hardly any noise. Considering we used to have one of the loudest atmospheres in the game that is shocking. The same could be said for most grounds now though.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I actually think we will have safe standing in this country at some point. St James on match days is surreal. There is literally hardly any noise. Considering we used to have one of the loudest atmospheres in the game that is shocking. The same could be said for most grounds now though.

It is very strange at times. But then at others (like everytime we play Chelsea for some reason), the place is still rocking. The consistent atmosphere went with the standing though, I don't think anyone would dispute that.

 

[Sheikh_of_Araby]

It is very strange at times. But then at others (like everytime we play Chelsea for some reason), the place is still rocking. The consistent atmosphere went with the standing though, I don't think anyone would dispute that.

I get that apathy has something to do with it. But even then, when you see games from even 10-15 years ago, the atmosphere was fantastic. The worst thing is, where I sit, if you even try to stand up and start to sing you get people around you looking around like you're weird. Football is too much like a day out at the pictures for some.

 

[Freddd]

Salary cap, with the EU, isn't ever going to happen. The day capitalism becomes something altogether more altruistic is the day we can talk salary caps, i.e. never.

The option for me is either NFL style drafts, where there is one large European league and everything else is just "college football", or transfer "tickets", where you get to buy only 3 net new players per calendar year (i.e. if you lose on, you can replace and still buy 3). The encouragement on then developing your youth would be fantastic and, ultimately, essential.

The only ones losing out in the latter scenario are scum-of-the-earth agents and Jim White. Who's crying about that?!

Salary caps aren't about altruism - - it's about NFL Football being a closed oligarchy which can dictate terms of employment in the owners' favour because there is no competition. It is the advantage of playing a sport that no one else in the world is interested in and in which neither promotion nr relegation exists. There are a set number of potential employers - - the potential employees can work on their terms, or not.

Football, on the other hand, has competition from Seoul to Dubai. Want to pay peanuts ? Go ahead if you want to want to watch monkeys. Want to fund everything without TV money ? Whatever. It's up to you if you're prepared to watch whatever dross you can afford.

And frankly, anyone who pines for poor quality, cheap prices and a real connection with the players, why not follow Whitley Bay (or Blyth, or wherever you happen to live) ? It's an entertaining afternoon out. No need to complain about Sky - - there's plenty of football it hasn't touched, and wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Salary caps aren't about altruism - - it's about NFL Football being a closed oligarchy which can dictate terms of employment in the owners' favour because there is no competition. It is the advantage of playing a sport that no one else in the world is interested in and in which neither promotion nr relegation exists. There are a set number of potential employers - - the potential employees can work on their terms, or not.

Football, on the other hand, has competition from Seoul to Dubai. Want to pay peanuts ? Go ahead if you want to want to watch monkeys. Want to fund everything without TV money ? Whatever. It's up to you if you're prepared to watch whatever dross you can afford.

And frankly, anyone who pines for poor quality, cheap prices and a real connection with the players, why not follow Whitley Bay (or Blyth, or wherever you happen to live) ? It's an entertaining afternoon out. No need to complain about Sky - - there's plenty of football it hasn't touched, and wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

This is very true but I think the point is that if you have supported Newcastle your entire life, some of which fell outside of the Sky era, then you kind of want to still support what you consider to be your club. To dismiss the connection made with that club is difficult. Most of our clubs supporters will have felt some level of disconnect with our club over the last 10 years, some over the last 30 years. They still can't stop themselves for whatever reason, me included.

It doesn't have to be poor quality to foster cheap prices and connection with players. Sky/PL/FA has created that situation via how they have managed the influx of money into the sport.